How often do you see forms of collusion between regs and dealers?

One thing I see dealers do at every card room is take the cards of the player that won the pot and put his mucked cards at the bottom of the deck. Then they will flash the cards to the table so players know if he/she was bluffing or not.

I have even seen dealers be so blatant as to peek at the mucked cards and whisper what the player had to someone they are friendly with in the 9 hole or 1 hole.

For those of you who are pros in Vegas, how much is cheating something you are on the lookout for? Is it something you have to focus on every time you play or do you trust the dealers not to be colluding with other players?

I've been falsely accused of cheating by an overly suspicious player who thought he was so smart and so awesome. As a result of that experience, I'm often skeptical when I see other accusations of cheating, or suggestions that it's really common in poker rooms. I don't doubt that it happens or that people will try it but I haven't seen the things you talk about going on. But I wasn't at the same tables you were at either.

I have a ton of hours in the big card rooms of vegas. The move you describe just does not happen there. The cheating I have seen and have had to deal with is people taking chips out of play when they lose an all in (palming chips)

I have been concerned about collusion (middling etc more than once...and actually quit a game exactly once b/c of it) The colluders were all "tourists who supposedly did not know each other"

A dealer I know refuses to play at the Wynn because of the collusion that goes on there. He was definitely cheated by a couple of guys, but this sort of thing is so rare its not even worth worrying about. These guys were probably just in town for a week anyway.

Personally, I've never seen cheating at the table before. I'd worry about angles before cheating and even that's pretty rare.


Have you caught someone doing this in the act, or do they leave before you realize what happened? I'm curious as to what happens because poker rooms accept no responsibility in these spots.

it has happened to me that I know of 2x

1 I wasnt sure and had them run tape...was awarded 300$ as my opponent stayed
2 Dude palmed a purple (500$) chip shoved his chips into the center and attempted to leave. I looked for the chip did not see it, yelled "he palmed a 500" and chased his ass down - confronted him and got it back...floor followed me cuz I yelled and sprinted.

I am SURE this has happened to me significantly more than the 2x I have seen. I try to be aware of high denom chips but palming when losing is just way to ez of a thing to do

squid great info and something to look for. Seems to me the dealers are making sure the chips are counted up front but I play low stakes and will definitely pay attention to this

Cheating no, soft play.... depends. I used to play a lot at Red Rock when I first moved here, but stopped due to the soft play (IMO) between regs. I've seen it in cash & tournaments. I remember at Red Rock in the same session, twice in a 3 way pot (2 villians were related), I saw full house over full house checked down to the river w/ no bet after pricing me out of a call on the flop. There's a fine line of idiot play, but if someone isn't betting the nuts on the river and not being warned for it by the dealer after being called out on it then it's time for a table switch. Cheating has a real defined line at the poker table, but soft play between friends/regs you're going to see everywhere. Most of the time, it's not a huge issue.

When cash played you always had to be on the lookout for hidden bills too. Even though I play low stakes this used to be a big problem at the Wynn when all games were uncapped.

Especially during WSOP. I cringe when 2 seats open at my table at the same time.

I've seen dealers peek at my mucks, but they never told anyone what I had, and I just ask them to stop doing that. Never seen a dealer flash anyone's mucks.

not sure about cheating but i know for a fact there are plenty of hitmen looking to take out players steamrolling 1/2 no limit games

I can confirm this as fact. A well placed source revealed to me that it is a direct intervention on the part of our North Korean adversaries as retribution for economic sanctions and DDOS attacks. By sending their elite intelligence operatives to enforce regs chopping the blinds and tourists couples from checking it down, they plan to recoup their losses and spin it up in the bac pit.

Not just Vegas but I have seen guys slink low in the 1-3 seats and look up at the cards that get pitched off the top when the dealers tilt their left hand (support hand) at an angle as they are dealing the hole cards.

Excellent callback, sir

Minor cheating can happen anywhere and not just in Vegas. As a player, it's your responsibility to be as attentive as possible. One form of cheating that I've caught in Vegas was a dealer joined our game after his shift, and he began not paying blinds. He would place a $5 chip out as the big blind but as the current dealer would bring in all the chips before the flop, he would intentionally not grab his friends blinds. Perfectly in sync, the off duty dealer would grab his blind and slide it back into his stack.

What about stacking the deck?

With a decent wash shuffle and an automated shuffler, that would be impressive.

When money was allowed to play, I've seen people overly keen to offer players change, usually worth keeping an eye on as some of that money got weeded off from time to time.

I keep an eye on everything I can, why not. Don't think I've ever seen a bent dealer, but seen loads of weak dealers, they can make innocent mistakes like getting side pots wrong, making wrong change, tournament colour ups with maths errors, etc.

Most of the time, it is just protecting yourself; making sure no-one is able to see your hand, making sure you get a full pay-off in all-ins, that when paying off someone else all in, their stack is counted correctly, and in non holdem games, not uncommon for the dealer to have no clue. Then just making yourself as angle-proof as possible, never throw away a hand until shown a better one. Never show your hand until the action has been confirmed, chips put over the line if necessary, etc.

Watching out for cocktail waitresses switching in a cold deck with the dealer... no need to look out for that, that's just the movies.

I've seen a ton of cheating in home games. Less in casinos, but against me I've seen many nailed cards, people showing their buddies their hands preflop, boomerang raise-folds that clearly were to build a pot for a buddy when buddy had the nuts, dealers flashing cards (usually seems unintentional but who knows), going south, less commonly going north, shiners, daub, stack slipping (wins a pot, rakes in neighbor's nearest stack with the pot when neighbor isn't watching), etc.

I have been playing in card rooms public, private, and underground for maybe 20 years and I've never one time seen a dealer chronically flashing cards to others at the table to expose another's hand. I don't believe that this actually happened at all, let alone "at every card room."

In casinos collusion is by far and away the thing you'll see the most, and it is almost always relatively benign, in the form of soft play. I call it 'benign' because it isn't too often you'll see guys actively middling players and such. That's not to say it can't happen, but it's not terribly common. One disclaimer is that I never play any higher than 5-10 so if you're playing higher than that I can't comment.

Also as usual, Squid is directly on the ball with his responses regarding players going south/palming chips off of all-in stacks etc. This happens _a lot_ in casinos and you need to be vigilant. The best defense is to pay attention and know roughly what people have behind. Obviously this can be little tough when you first sit, but it never takes too long to get the lay of the land if you put a little effort into it.

Let's be more clear: palming happens in bigger games that allow bigger chips. In 1/2,3 games, where almost all chips are $1,$5 and $25, it's not a prob. It's a good argument for keeping bigger chips off the table, though.

Where bigger chips play, it's wise to track them. Be the nit that insists on big chips sitting on top or in front of stacks.

Flashing cards is rare, and obvious, and stupid, and almost never happens in Vegas casinos.

Cheating itself, in Vegas casinos, is rare. As Limon said, it makes a lot more sense to cheat online or in home games than in a place with cameras and arrest powers and wizened old-timers who know the angles. When I first started playing--before you were born--it was pretty mandatory to learn the signs of cheats. Remember in Rounders when Knish said something like he didn't see proof of Worm's cheating, he heard it? That's a thing.

Tough to hear a second being dealt with headphones on.

I don't think dealers would intentionally cheat, especially in small stakes games. With cameras everywhere, they wouldn't risk the chance of being blackballed by all the casinos and lose their livelihood.

i personally have witnessed this more than once, oddly enough

It seems the responses have covered it pretty accurately. Follow the action, watch dealers count stacks and pots and you should be okay. Soft play is an issue but never anything too major or just switch tables if you feel it is out of control. I never play at a table where I know 3+ people are buddies.

I have had dealers look at my cards and simply telling them not to has solved the problem. Going south is something I've seen the most probably but informing the dealer/floor has solved this quickly.

What casino?

In Vegas or NorCal?

Purposely in nor cal, accidentally in Vegas

I've seen Vegas dealers look at discards, just being ignorant (bellagio) as far as I could tell