Hello fellas. I'm going to head to Las Vegas later in October and have some questions. I heard that casinos report transactions for $10,000 at once or per a day and I have some questions.


A. I plan to make some sports bets and play table games while I'm there and want to know this information before i get there. I don't plan to bet big because all I'm bringing is about $2000 with me. Well i might bet big if i win a lot and get on a winning streak My question is if a person makes a $3000 wager at one of the vegas casinos on a football game, is there a transaction report filed? People say that if you don't cashout $10,000 at once, no information is taken down. They say if you risk $5,500 to win $5,000 and win in a sportsbook then yes they would take down your information because you would be cashing out $10,500. But if you risk $4,400 to win $4,000 and win, no information is ever taken because the total amount cashed out is $8,800. Is this true? Because i find this doesn't make any sense.


B. The thing that got me confused about this is because when i go to Atlantic City, i recalled seeing a message at the cashier saying if you cashout more than $3,000, they take down information. Well if that is the case, then isn't the sportsbooks in Las Vegas going to require id/casino card if you cash even a $1650 to win $1500 sportsbetting ticket since its over $3000? And do sportsbook require you to show a casino card/Id if you were to make any type of wagers even if its a $50 wager or only if you are betting a big amount? I know about those slot machines where if you win $600 at once or x the amount, they file you a w2g or so but i don't play slot machines.


C. And for table games, if i buyin for $1500 and get lucky and win $2000. Then i go cashout for $3500 at the cashier. Would i get asked for my casino card/id because its over $3000? I know some people say the best thing to do is cashout a little at a time but I know that is illegal and is called structuring so i will not be doing any of this as it can cause trouble but i do want to know if a transaction report will be put on me.


D. And how do they record you for table games? I know in games like roulette, you don't even need to show casino card to buy chips as you can't even get rated. So even if you put a $5000 wager on red and win, i'm pretty sure they won't note you for that right? But when you play games like blackjack, they do when you cashout. So if a person goes and buyin for $2000 at a blackjack table and then wins $4000 and then cashes out for chips, would they be recorded here for $4000 or $6000 on the computers? If that person then decides to do another session later on in the day and buys in for $3000 and then wins another $4000, i assume pit boss would calculate cashing out of $7,000. So wouldn't this mean these 2 sessions of a person buying in for $2,000 and winning $4,000 and then buying in for $3,000 and winning $4,000 create a currency transaction report since it totals $11,000 in a 24 hour period? And does the 24 hour period - is it done within one regular day or is it 24 hours since the first time a report is done on you at the tables.



And yes i know i'm getting way ahead of myself as I'm planning to win money there but wanted to know this stuff incase i do win a good amount of money there.

I'm sure FinCEN's Regulatory Helpline at (800) 949-2732 can help answer any questions you may have

Look up SAR *Suspicious Activity Report"

All banking institutions (prolly casinos too ) have to report the receipt of $10,000 in cash or anything close that may be suspicious. If, you, the citizen, tries to get around this law/rule (ie. depositing $9K twice in a row) that is called "structuring" and is illegal.

The banking institutions try to CYA (cover their butt) by having more restrictive rules. (ie. $3K)

These reports go to the Feds where they usually just trash them. The Feds are trying to get a handle on all the cash. Big cash transactions are frequently associated with drug/gun/smuggling, etc.

File your SAR and don't worry about it.

-------------Kitty

PS. If you are GETTING cash, it my be a whole different matter. (ie. IRS)

I also read that if you win a sportsbet that you can chips as oppose to cash. Is that true? I read that if you win say a $1100 to win $1000 bet, you can choose to take $1000 in cash and $1100 in casino chips at the sportsbook?

Not true at all. If so, you could just take that $1100 and chips and go to the cashier.

I'm a bit unsure what you are saying there.


Are you saying that one has to take $2100 in cash when cashing out the ticket? You can't cash out $2100 in chips or half and half?

You can def take chips. They may not have 5 figures in casino chips on hand. Theyre not going to make a trip to go get them for you. Big places like Bellagio will have lots of sports book chips they can give you that you can cash at the cage. But they will call the book for approval just like they'll call the casino for approval for regular flags.

All slot wins $1200 or over generate a w2g, not $600 or more.

Hypothetically speaking lets say you have $12,000 in chips, you can always go cash $6000 go to dinner, come back and play with the rest of the chips and then go cash out whatever you have left. There is no law saying you have to cash out the full $12,000 at one time. The structuring part is a pretty big gray area and you wouldn't be the first person to find away around it.

Hey King. So are you saying if a person makes a wager for $4400 to win $4000 on an NFL game and wins and claims the ticket, then no information would be taken down since he would be cashing out $8,400?

In the situation you have with the $12,000 chips and cashing out $6,000 and then cashing the rest at dinner, wouldn't that still get flagged since its more than $3,000 at a time?

Why would $3k at a time get flagged? IF they check your player's card/ID at the cage it's only if you cash out $10k+ in a 24hr period of time.

Sports betting is an area I'm unfamiliar with as to big cashouts, but I've taken multiple trips to a casino cage to cash out $3k+ and never had a problem.

Also, take your large denomination chip to the poker table, get change, play..cash out at poker cage...

I thought 3k gets flagged because in Atlantic City, there is a sign next to the cashier that says 3k requires id. Well i'm not sure as i never cashed out 3k in AC but i assume that would be the same in Vegas?

Why would i take the chip to the poker table and get change to cashout at the poker cage?

You assume wrong

Because smaller denomination chips don't get flagged. Nor do poker cage transactions.

You worry too much.

You need id to cash more than 4k or buy in for more than 4k in bills at the B poker room. Yes, you can get around it if you feel for some reason you need to. There's a difference between recorded and flagged. No one is going to chase after you because you have ten thousand dollars.

You do not need to go to a table to get change for big chips. You can do it at the cage.

Well i don't plan to play any poker though.


What is considered small denomination chips? Is it $100 chips and below or $25 chips and below?

If you cash in or buy in for $10,000 or more in cash you have to show ID, give your SSN, and a CTR is generated. It is really no big deal otherwise.

If you cash in for $3,000 or more you will be asked for ID but it's between you and Mr. Wynn.

If you act suspiciously, such as cashing your $15,000 pile of chips in two separate trips to the cage (this is illegal) you might (or might not) generate an SAR (which is probably also not a big deal). If you ask questions about CTRs or SARs or what time their gaming day begins, or you buy chips and cash them in without playing, you will generate an SAR for sure.

These reports go to FinCen not the IRS, and you would be one among a large number of reports that the feds receive annually. Unless you are a big time drug dealer or you substantially underreport the income from your cash businesses, the odds that the feds would do anything based on your drawing a CTR or SAR are negligible.

Non-cash transactions don't generate CTRs or SARs. If you do manage to turn $2,000 into $10,000, which is harder to do in Las Vegas than you might imagine, deposit your chips at the cage and the casino will be happy to cut you a check on departure. (If the amount is large enough they will grudgingly cut you a check )
.

Never get your legal advice from the cops

Are you saying if they write me a check for $10,000 then that means there is no CTR? If this is so, then why do people try to cashout small amounts at a time then. I had no clue you could ask for a check. Is $10,000 the minimum to request for a check?

No, I have requested checks for tournament wins for less. One was $4000ish and one was $5000ish. I would imagine each casino has their own policy but you can get checks upon request in most cases. You can leave your money behind the cage and pick it up later, or take the chips with you and cash out later.

What do you mean you can put the money behind the cage and pick it up later? I assume you don't mean all your chips right?

Wow you ask a lot of dumb questions. In the unlikely event you need to cash out large sums of money, do it in increments less than 4k and you'll be fine.

1. Yes. A check for $1,000,000 generates no CTR or other government paperwork (unless you win a slot jackpot over $1199 or more than $4999 in a poker tournament, in which case you'd get an IRS Form W-2G for the amount of your win). There are no W-2Gs issued for sports book or table game winnings. The reason there is no CTR on checks is because the gubmint has access to your checking account information.

2. I don't know. Maybe the persons you describe don't intend to report or pay U.S. income tax on their net gambling winnings as is required by law. Intentionally evading CTRs by cashing out small amounts at a time is illegal "structuring," although people often, even usually, get away with it.

3. You can ask for anything you want including hookers and blow. A check you would certainly get, if the amount is reasonably large, and you are checking out or otherwise leaving the property immediately. If you're not leaving the property, they won't want to cut the check, because the casino wants you to have the cash available to lose while you're there.

4. I have no idea. Ask. I would be surprised if they would go to the trouble for small amounts.

5. They will give you a "cage receipt." This is called "depositing front money." If you deposit chips, you can come back later for your cash, or draw against it at any gaming table in increments of $500 by requesting and signing a marker. Since it's your own money that's already on deposit, you don't have to pay it back as you would a marker drawn against a casino credit line.

If you deposit cash, they will insist that you draw it at a table and gamble at least a little bit, because of the laws against money laundering. One time I had deposited front money prior to my arrival -- and the hotel didn't honor my room reservation! Needless to say I was in no mood to gamble there on that trip. They still wouldn't give me my money back until I drew it out in chips at a table and played some of it.

6. They will accept, and issue a cage receipt for, as much cash or chips as you want to deposit (remember that over $9999 in cash within a 24-hour period generates a CTR). You can also send them a wire transfer from your bank.
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Because those peoples' bank accounts are under surveillance by the FBI/CIA and they can't cash the checks anywhere. They need the cash because it's untraceable.

You have to realize that the CTR/SAR rules are not meant to track your play, they are there to prevent criminals from laundering their money. They're not meant to track money, they're meant to track cash.

Lol NO... In most cases people simply want to avoid generating sars and showing that they have more taxable income because who the f wants to pay more taxes. If the FBI, let alone the focking CIA, are monitoring your bank accounts you have a lot bigger problems to worry about then generating a sar or ctr for 10k... And they aren't going to stop you from cashing any check, they will just see that you did and use that against you if they bring up tax evasion charges, etc.

I will just put this bluntly for the op. You don't have or make enough money to worry about any of this. If you hit big in Vegas feel free to structure if it makes you feel better.