All I am saying is that I wouldn't do an action that could put somebody's job at risk just to be "cute". We have to consider the position this guy put the dealer in before we all jump on his bandwagon.

You make absolutely no sense. How did he put the dealers job at risk? Technically if the dealer did his job he would have prevented this from happening. It's not like the dealer was helpless in preventing it. When I've topped off at times it has been for more than the max buyin. I've had dealers tell me the max is the max, even when the rest of the table says they don't care. This doesn't bother me at all because they are doing their job.

Maybe you should ask all the other people in this thread who said this whole incident is the dealers responsibility and the blame should be his or hers. If it is the dealer's responsibility, then an infraction that gets a player banned for life would probably get a dealer canned if he enabled it. I would never do what this guy did because I don't want to live with the fact that my actions may have costed somebody's livelihood. If you don't know what that is, it is called having a conscious.

Last thing OP should do is put any part of the blame on the dealer when talking to the Management.

I am not saying he should blame the dealer. My suggestion was if he gets to talk to management to mention that the dealer allowed it which would support that he wasn't cheating. Is what he did against the rules, obviously, but by no means do I consider it cheating. Especially when the dealer allowed it.

While not the same type of situation, it relates to Ivey's lawsuit against the London Casino. The dealer, pit boss, and who knows who else all agreed to his request to have them rotate cards and whatever else he wanted. They didn't prevent it at all and yet they accuse him of cheating. So either they knew what he was doing and were willing to take the risk at the hopes he would lose, all the while already knowing that if he wins they would sue him, or they were oblivious and ignore the fact that they agreed to it and still sue him. This is my point about taking responsibility. They allowed it and should live with it.

Great from your point of view, but the Management will only hear "I didn't do anything wrong because YOUR GUY LET ME DO IT".

Not what the Management wants to hear.

Yeah unfortunately it's a really bad spot for the OP to be in. Mentioning the dealer will look like he is saying someone else deserves the blame. In other words, it will look like the OP isn't sorry and isn't taking responsibility for what he did. And it will look like the OP is making excuses, which is not something they want to hear.

On a serious note, as many have said, the OP is simply telling us his intentions as he wants them to be heard. If you don't think there is any consideration from his/her part around why this rule exists. And, as someone who actually takes their money seriously, screw the OP, get him out of any poker room I am in and go play in a backyard somewhere.

Can you imagine if the Aria allowed this once, and then again and then a few more times? It's just dumb that it went twice and we all know OP is telling half the story. OP can go back and play anytime he wants, he is just attention seeking as is clear for the duration of this thread. Only time he will get called on it is when he does something else to deteriorate the integrity of the game. Whiny little kid is what we have here.

Good riddance.

I can't imagine anything the management WOULD want to hear short of "I'll give you 50G in Keno action before I take my first hand at poker.".

Anybody who bases their decision on the words of a barred cheater, as opposed to a straight up analysis of risk and reward, is a sucker who doesn't deserve to be in a position of responsibility.

Slow clap building to full applause. Hear, hear! Hopefully, SplawnDarts' words will put an end to this thread. OP isn't getting back into and MGM brand games and needs to accept that fact.

Preciate the support!

Sup,

I stated things as they transpired in the letter, but refrained from assigning blame to the dealer. I apologized for taking the fun a little too far, explained what motivated my actions without attempting to justify them and promised to refrain from doing anything outside of standard gameplay should I be given another chance.

Thanks for posting and trying to offer some helpful advice.

Staying away from poker and spending $50,000 in pits "could" do it. You become, potentially, more +EV to them. At the moment, you are -EV. Granting you privileges provides so little in rake and opens them up to liability. It is just too easy to cheat when cards touch one person and go to another. Or one person complains (who loses) and blames it on the changing of cards. He can easily say he was bullied into the change.

It provides angle shooters with too much ammunition. I bet they think they are almost free-rolling the game. I can imagine the angle-shooter calling over the floor after a loss and saying he didn't agree with that rule change and he wants his money back. He will say he registered for 3-6 PLO without switching cards for laughs. Unless each signs a release, this just can't happen in a casino environment. And even a release like that would probably be legally unenforceable anyway!

Your intentions did not seem bad. You had a horrible attitude at the beginning being all defensive without even trying to understand the other side and perhaps you now realize a small shot of redemption is to completely say you are sorry. It may work. Other options are spending money in pit or just waiting a few years.

Looking for the nearest exit...ok don't ever come back.

This will almost never work in a casino. You're in their house. They will assure you there are plenty of cameras in the back of the casino. Not listening to them will only get you in more trouble (should you have done something and not realized it) and/or not doing what they say will only have you banned as they can ban you for any reason. The days of casinos roughing you up are over. IE; OP didn't feel he did anything wrong...was shocked the suits wanted to take him in the back. Should he tried to put up any fight or walk out the casino he would have been taken down and they would of had no choice but to call gaming and have him arrested for switching cards.


OP;
Tough situation but you have to understand from the casino point of view. You easily could have been arrested for what you did. Should you have been joking or not there is money at risk and you know it's not a legal thing to do and you did it. In a private game sure go for it but you don't do it in a casino with there are laws and rules. Without a doubt, people complained and they made the right call.

Plus borderline gray area to do angles and try to convince players to stay in a game and gamble more then they wanted.

So in your letter to Aria. I would include the dealer allowed it and laugh it off as did many other players. You didn't think it matter because it was in "the dark." You love the game of poker and many of your friends play at MGM properties.

No.

The casino cannot legally detain you unless they suspect you of committing a felony. The chances of them going hands-on with you if you politely refuse to go with them and try to leave quietly are slim. The advice was correct- don't go with them unless they force you, don't give them ID. They're going to ban you anyway. Let LE make the decision whether you get arrested and charged with a crime or not.

Sup All,

Yes, totally reviving this old a$$ thread!

I've spent the majority of the last few years overseas and I'm glad to finally be back home in the US. There is however this small issue of being banned from Aria and essentially half of the Vegas Strip. Being that I'll want to visit Vegas again, I'm wondering if there is anyone that has an in, paging JRB, at Aria and could at least get someone to hear me out regarding what transpired a few years ago.

I've sent letters and even hand delivered one to a security guard two years ago while in Vegas, but never heard anything back. This obviously could be taken as a very strong clue about my chances on getting this lifetime ban rescinded, but the optimist in me wants to believe that the right person simply hasn't heard my story or read my letters.

If anyone knows someone that might know someone, please let me know!

Thanks!

I respect the persistence; somebody help this man!

Phil Ivey is the guy you’re looking for.

Would anybody really know if you just showed up and played?

At this point you are fine for cash games. Just don't use/get a players card. I wouldn't play any tourneys though because if you bink they might just decide to pull the "banned" card and not pay you out.

I was thinking the same thing. The one thing to be aware of is if they use facial recognition software, which they most likely do. So they may pick you out with that pretty quickly. Worst case, you say you thought it was a temp ban and agree to leave if they ask you too. You could then also ask to speak to mgmt, but who knows if they will talk to you.

According to this as recently as October they weren’t using facial recognition technology:

Seems like if you cooperate too much with security by giving them ID, not setting foot on the property when you are banned, and writing them letters acknowledging that you are banned you tend to be worse off than you would be if you don’t cooperate too much with security.

Steve, October 2014 that is..

Thnx for the link anyway

I was trying to get the OP in trouble so the thread would get some interesting updates.

Here’s a more recent article from October 2018 (instead of October 2014 lol):

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.rev...p-casinos/amp/

LOL, that's not the worst case. The worst case looks more like getting handcuffed and thrown into the back seat of a car with lots of lights on the roof.