Why do my posts here keep getting deleted?

Wow is all I gotta say....

http://www.cardrunners.com/blog/citi...mic-1241550499

I thought he meant in a single raised pot. 3bet pot is a different situation. As 3 betting or 4 betting AK you need to have a specific reason given flatting can be a valid option. Anyway as a coach you should never get angry with your student they're paying you for your time you have to be professional about it.

Lol

CHENG,

i think it's clear from the two cw threads that i have not been defending him. i've basically said: "yeah, i'm aware of the situation, he's on a break from CR vids, we'll have a talk in 2011."

but for you to dig up a post from mid 2009 yet disregard the guy's two most recent posts where he has posted a some very successful stats seems like you are simply trying to make the guy look bad. (cliffs: posted 750k hands from 50 and 100nl rush @ ~7bb/100)

http://www.cardrunners.com/blog/citizenwind

i don't care if you are the best player/coach in the world, you still gotta represent yourself with a certain level of professionalism if you are going be a poker coach or represent CardRunners. i am not condoning some of his actions and as i have previously said, i've had multiple in person conversations with him about how i have been disappointed with how he has represented himself and our company. i don't want it to seem like i am defending that at all, i'm not.

i just don't think it's right that some people are clearly in this thread to make cw look bad, i think people need to consider all of the facts and not just cherry pick evidence that that can be used against the guy. clearly there is some good with the bad in everything in life.

i'll give you guys an update in early 2011. tks

taylor,

I too have had a bad experience with CW. Now, i know this is my fault too, but i prepaid for lessons from him back in 09, i believe 5 lessons for 380ish. We went around cardrunners probably so he wouldnt have to pay the juice to you guys. Well, i was an idiot, and did this. He gave me a 20 min lesson (my mike was F*ed up) and he saidhe couldnt deal with me, and this lesson was free and we would get back at it. Well 2 days letter my mike was fixed, and he kept dodging me for a lesson, about 3 months went by of me asking for lessons, him not being available. I went with Brendan K, and asked he switch my lessons over to brendan for credit. He said he would. Never did.

He is a liar. Good poker player or not. He has no ethics. Probably because he was picked on in high school IMO. He has now found that he is good at poetry and poker, and loves to rub peoples faces init.

also i know i am a new poster (not really but my other account was banned for asking to RECEIVE a paypal xfer in the xfer thread (not trying to rip anyone off)) and if a mod would like to see my screen to verify, i would be more than willing.

last time i posted this no one paid any attention, and it pisses me off, because i was probably wronged mroe than anyone in this thread. I just really don't like the guy personally, otherwise i wouldnt care about a few hundred smackers.

fwiw i am currently working with alvin. no doubt he can be brash and make you feel dumb at times. i am not surprised that people are reacting negatively to that. this style is not for everyone.

however, i knew to expect some of this after reading his coaching posting on the cr forums. i feel like my game is much better than it was before we started. i think if you go in with thick skin and an open mind there is a lot you can learn by working with alvin.

You are possibly one of the biggest toolbagss I've ever seen. It's so sad that you are delusional enough to actually use that word to describe something you would do. A human being like you is not possible of being "altruistic." You are purely self motivated, you are trash, your attitude is trash, your existence is trash, I feel sorry for your friend using his current state as a means to boost your own ego up.

Sounds like he has anger issues. I wouldn't wanna get coached by someone like that if he was paying me $50 an hour to learn.

in b4 citizenwind gets sacked from cardrunners

meh, i dont think this prick shud b sacked as many microstakes players find his vids helpful. I think he should be removed from the coaching list tho, cos its his coaching that people have problems with and making CR looks bad.

I haven't read the whole thread but I wanted to contribute.
I recently paid for and received two AMAZING coaching sessions from Citizenwind as part of the same charity offer OP took part in. As I am primarily a MTT player and not a Cash player my reasons for participating were 25% altruistic, 25% because of being a fan of Citizenwind's videos on CR, and 50% because I saw a great opportunity to learn from one of the best cash players out there at a steep discount even though at a game I don't normally play.
CITIZENWIND is one of the BEST coaches I have experience learning from, and I have done coaching sessions with a number of different pros over the years. I found it extremely productive in the short amount of time we had to work together. I came as prepared as I could for the session (probably more for the second than the first) and I believe I am a "thinking" player so I was always willing to respond to his thought-provoking questions semi-intelligently and, if I didn't have an answer right away, I took a moment to consider my answer before replying. As these sessions were related to Rush I felt the style was a perfect compliment - think fast, think smart, but don't get carried away by either the speed of the game or the EMOTION of the moment.
I feel awful that OP brought such a poor experience on Alvin during a time of generosity, both to his friend in need of help and to the poker community who were buying coaching at such an amazingly deep discount.
I couldn't recommend Citizenwind more highly as a Rush FR coach. It is rare to find a pro who not only plays well but can then explain so well his reasoning for the profitable moves he is making. It is rarer still to find one who will provoke thought from his student.
If you're the type of person who will cuss at strangers being so generous with their time, even if you're frustrated you can't think intelligently when you need to, then not only is Citizenwind not a good coach for you but NO ONE is a good coach, teacher, instructor, friend, girlfriend/boyfriend, acquaintance, etc. for you.
And by the way, I hope OP continues to play the same poker games I do. OP, I will frustrate you and take your money. And it is YOUR generosity to the poker community I will also applaud.

I think you have been hiring the wrong people to coach you?


I have had lessons with several coaches since CW. They are much more articulate, better players, and decent humans. Yes their price range is not in line with CW's charity range, but his usual range, yes.

Oh snap!

lol this is so ridiculous.
1) we know cw has positive reviews we don't need them here
2) you actually are not helping cw's case. this shows cw is elitist and handpicks who he will be nice to and who he will not be nice to. and it sounds like he will treat someone based on their poker mind.

he might as well put up a requirement saying "i'm such a hot shot coach that if you guys don't come prepared to answer advanced poker questions, I will berate you, otherwise I will be nice to you."

in fact, if hes consistantly bad mannered but teaches well, thats one thing. but when he seem to be mr.friendly toward people he deem "worthy" thats a much bigger problem.

and thats what we are getting at here isnt it?

^ Yeah. Sounds like he's capable of good coaching, but has engaged in atrociously unprofessional behavior. Possibly bordering on thievery if what some of the people in the thread say are true (like telling a student they're uncoachable, not refunding them and then blocking them). Maybe he thinks this is justified, but it's really not. Other people having a good experience when he's on his coaching/ethical A game doesn't excuse any of it. (This is just my impression based on some of the testimonials posted ITT)

Reading everything about CW in this thread brings to mind the Soup Nazi from Seinfeld.

..guess that ebook will be available at a discount soon...

hey guys,

cw let me know yesterday that he was going to stop making videos at CR. he'd like to keep blogging and posting in the forums, but feels an extended and i assume permanent break from videos is necessary. he apologized to me for any negativity his behavior brought to CR.

in case anyone cares, i've received some messages about cw from people in the poker community. most of them have been supportive of him, some have not.

here is my opinion, maybe there is something we can all take away from this:

-it's clear that alvin pissed some people off. no doubt about it. was he out of line? imo, at times, yes.

-we have to draw the line somewhere as far as acceptable behavior for people repping our site. cleary cw was at least right at that "acceptable behavior" line if he did not cross it. but i do want to say that people need to remember: this is poker. this isn't an easy way to make a living, this isn't high school, this isn't even college. it's the real world and we are talking about playing a game of chance (and skill obv) for a living. i'm not interested in babysitting CR pros or anyone in the community. people come to our site to learn how to win at poker. if a pro has a bad temper or is unreasonable sometimes, i'm not justifying it, but you have to weigh that against everything else. is the guy good at teaching? is he a good player? is he active helping people in the community? as far as results go, cw posted his 2010 rush poker results and was a significant winner over a few hundred thousand hands (http://www.cardrunners.com/blog/citizenwind). bottom line is: he is a solid poker player and imo is an articulate instructor. does that make up for some temper problems or unprofessionalism? that's for you to decide. clearly a lot of you have decided one way or the other. my opinion is that i will ignore a LOT about something or someone if it helps me get better at poker. honestly, PERSONALLY, i wouldn't care if my coach berated the hell out of me 24/7 if it meant that i would get better at poker. if i wanted moral support i'd get a therapist or a girlfriend.

-it's a bit frustrating to me that people in these forums have a "pile on" mentality. i'm not trying to justify anything that cw did, but some of you people (and you know who you are) seem to revel in the fact that someone is being trashed in public. if cw isn't the right coach for you, fine, i accept that, but don't come in here just to try to make the guy look bad. life's too short to waste your time on that. if you don't think it's too short for petty **** like that, you're not doing it right.

anyway, i'm not really sure who "wins" in this situation. i give cw props for apologizing to me about the negative attention this brought to CR. i've got no beef with him, i think he realizes how this stuff does matter for his and his training sites' reputation. ironically i bet he gets more coaching demand because of this thread. yeah, he's not for everyone, but he's clearly a winning player with a lot of happy students...he's arguably better off for having had this thread created. i'll of course listen to any and all feedback, but i probably won't be posting too much more in this thread.

gl guys.

I wouldn't have made a thread on my own but this seems like a good opportunity to share my encounter with citizenwind.

I was one of the first guys to jump on his coaching for charity offer ( http://www.cardrunners.com/blog/citi...-friend-in-icu ) and paid $300 for 6 hours of coaching. I had taken a few coaching sessions before that from players like AMT, Goldseraph and Mpethybridge but never a CR pro because I just couldn't afford their rates so I was very excited to get a decent amount of hours with what seemed to be one of the best coaches for the game I wanted to played, namely FR NLHE.

I immediately transferred the money and sent him an email asking when he was able to do the first 2 hours of the coaching and he replied very quickly and friendly. He seemed very happy about the interest in his offer.

When the day of the coaching arrived everything changed. He told me that he was only going to do an hour instead of 2, giving no explanation, just putting it out there. This kinda felt weird from the start but I was okay with it.

Secondly, he refused to use Teamviewer the entire session which would have made it a lot easier for me to answer his questions and give him an insight on my game (I am/was a midstacker with 300k hands at FR under my belt trying to make the transition to fullstacking). Obviously looking at my stats would have been very beneficial to assess leaks in my game.

He told me that he was going to ask me some general questions to gauge my understanding of the game which I answered to the best of my abilities. Whenever we got to a point where our opinions differed I would ask a few follow up questions. After about 20 minutes we ended up talking about some weird bluffspot in a 3bet pot and I reminded him that I was a beginner at the game and he should continue his basic questions. This started one of the most epic *****torms I have ever seen in a conversation. He didn't answer my questions and basically just started a big fight about wether I believed him to be a good coach. All this time I was very collected and didn't raise my voice but wondered in my head what was happening. I spent the next 10 minutes cooling him down and apologizing for asking questions and tried to get a fresh start with him. I flat out asked him how we should procede since I was worried he would bail on me if he found me "uncoachable". So I put on my biggest smile and he made it very clear that he was unsure if he was going to continue to coaching but I should send him my 10 biggest questions via email.

After that he logged off without saying "good bye" or anything. He just closed Skype when the hour was over.

This was on 10/17/2010 and I sent him my email the very day I had the coaching, not mentioning any falling out, giving him the chance to start fresh with me and forget what happened.

I haven't heard from him since and I don't expect to. I didn't send any more emails because it seemed pointless. He doesn't want to do the coaching and I can't force him.

Without getting too much into the politics of things, I feel like I was the victim of a scam. He took too many students for free (all the money went to his sick friend) and he knew it from the start. The money was gone and so was the incentive to establish a good relationship with his students. I'm just a small time grinder while he is an established Cardrunners Pro, one bad review isn't going to hurt him. It hurt me financially (I'm not in the "get yelled at for $300 an hour" fetish scene) and it hurt my trust into Cardrunners.

For some, yes. For others, no. The main issue is whether his actions amount to ripping people off, which seems to have been the case at times.
Seems like it.

Does refusing to coach someone after they paid help them get better at poker? I see multiple allegations of that nature, not just the OP and not just regarding charity payments.

I agree the forums have that mentality, often to an over the top and unreasonable extent. However, I don't think this thread has been unreasonable aside from CHENGPOKER's contributions. I don't think CW's a deliberate scammer really and nothing in the thread really suggests to me that his videos or book would be poor.

However, most aren't posting "just to make him look bad", I think they've had legitimate bad experiences that amounted to paying for a service and not receiving it in some cases. I definitely would not get coaching from CW now, so this information is valuable. TBH I was borderline on his side until others besides the OP shared their experiences. Clearly many also like his coaching and that is perfectly fine. Although I don't mind being told I suck, risking a temper tantrum or being deemed unworthy of receiving his instruction and then not getting a refund would not be worth it for me.

That's a depressing thought, but as long as people are making more informed decisions, I can't call it a bad thing.

I would give him more props if he refunded everyone who had a bad experience and made sure there is no one he owes money to for uncompleted coaching. The former is not obligatory, but would probably be a smart business decision.

Reading comments like this one, I'm pretty sure CR doesn't "win" here. Nor do people who like CWs videos. Nor do people who paid for coaching lessons they didn't received and didn't got refunded. No clue if CW wins or not or if he even cares about that.

@green plastic, i agree with everything foal says. I don't think ppl r being out of line here and trying to make him look bad at all. The fact is lots of ppl ve bad experience with cwind, WTF do u expect ppl to say when he's been treating other ppl like crap. Instead of pointing at the finger at ppl saying they are trying to make him look bad, why not think about why ppl r saying what they are saying. U don't care how badly someone berates u as long as they make u better at poker, good for u!! U talk in a tone like we are being silly to get upset. Ur not the customers, ur the guy who runs the business, I really think you should have a better attitude and slightly more respects to ur customers.

i spoke about my personal opinion if i were to be getting private coaching. i stand by that opinion...i would want a poker coach to make me better, that's really all i would care about. i'm not suggesting that everyone has to agree with me.

when i've had issues in the past with cw i've been up front with him and said that it's unacceptable (forum spats, petty things in general). since there were some more recent complaints and it wasn't the first time i had warned him, i told him that he needed to take some time away from CR and we'd talk in the new year. two days ago he emailed me saying that he was quitting making videos, so there really was no decision for me to be made.

i've linked him to this thread. if anyone has a dispute about what they have paid him then i suggest they discuss it with him on this forum or in private. there is a reason we have an official coaching section at CR -- we take payments, hold the money, schedule the lessons, and pay AFTER the student has received the lesson and has had a chance to give feedback. we don't endorse or support anything outside of this coaching arrangement.

again, i'm sorry if i am coming off as insensitive because that was not my intention. i'm just trying to be completely honest about how i feel, both as cw representing CR (i'm not happy about the way he did that) and how i would feel as a prospective student (i just want to get better).

thanks

Hey everyone,

I actually hadn't been paying attention to this thread for a while until people brought it to my attention, I had no idea it had been going for a while. Whoops!

1) I've never scammed anyone. I'm honestly extraordinarily busy, and if people fall through the cracks with requesting lessons it's my fault, but certainly not one of malice or ill-will. I just forget. However, if the student doesn't follow-through with asking for lessons, that's hardly grounds for claiming I scammed them. The responsibility for setting up lessons doesn't rest 100% in the coach's hands.

If you have outstanding lessons / money with me, please e-mail me at alvin.c.lau@gmail.com and I'll gladly refund whatever you've paid up, even for monies donated to Jeremiah's hospital fund. All I ask if for proof of our correspondence. People can say I'm a jerk, but not that I'm a thief!

2) There is no doubt I've been out of line, and as Tay mentioned, I'm stepping down to avoid any negative associations I may bring to Cardrunners-- CR's been such a powerful and positive influence in my life that I'd hate to tarnish them in any way. I've privately apologized to guys over at CR, many of whom are good friends outside of poker, and I'd like to publicly apologize here: I'm incredibly sorry for bringing much of this on, and take full responsibility for my actions.

3) A couple of my students and friends have stepped in to defend me. You guys didn't have to do that, and I'm very grateful for your support! I'm sorry that you've had to mire yourselves in any sort of drama. Sucks.

4) People don't pay me to be their best friend. I'm terrible at that. They pay me to teach them how to make buttloads of money. I'm fabulous at that!

Someone mentioned "Asian upbringing" and for sure I've had one and hold to it. I demand my students to work hard and I'm brutally blunt about what they need to do. I've DEFINITELY called my students lazy, or a robot, or bad at poker, or berated them for bad play. If I pay someone to coach me-- and I've paid plenty for coaching across multiple disciplines in my time-- I WANT them to be straight up about how terrible of a poker player, or writer, or chess player, or protoss player I am. That's how I improve. A TON of my students have said "Thank you, this is what I need, don't hold back." So I don't, and guess what, those are the same students who send me graphs where they made $10k a month for the first time in their lives.

However, other people can't disassociate my critique of their play with an ad hominem attack, and most of them are posters in this thread. I am a passionate individual, as any of you who have seen my art have seen, and that passion's often mistaken for tilt or anger. However, I am not excusing my behavior, which has CERTAINLY been over-the-top at points. My bluntness really rubs up roughly with more sensitive demeanors, and that is certainly a flaw in my style and personality.

In my own slight defense, I will say that a few of my students have been very rude, or prideful, or tried to scam free coaching out of me. As a teacher, I am expected to have unlimited patience at the risk of poor feedback. I just can't do that. Now, that doesn't mean I need to be a dbag to someone, but I'm also not going to let a dick run me over at the risk of being flamed in a faraway thread.

5) Though I thought this thread would really hurt my coaching business, oddly, people have said "Oh man I saw that 2+2 thread, can I have coaching and then post my experience?" Which sounds a bit masochistic, but hey, some people are into that stuff.