Ok I'm a few beers deep but this makes lots of sense to me, hopefully it does tomorrow morning too.

Problem

So there are a lot of people who want to play higher buy in tournaments who can't because of bankroll

It's very inconvenient for players to have people buy $1 of their action and have to spend tonnes of time sending people money back

There are tonnes of people unjustifiably charging ridiculous markup

There are a lot of people around the world who enjoy railing and having a small piece of somebody could be great

There are tonnes of people scared to stake because of the chance of being scammed by a random

Guarantees are decreasing every week on PokerStars

Stars make money every time somebody clicks "register" in a tournament lobby.

Solution

PokerStars have a lobby within the lobby of people who want to play the tournament.

You can simply buy in increments of 1% of the player, the player can take whatever % of himself he wants. None of this is public ally disclosed, nobody knows who has what % of who. Once he has sold enough to play the tournament he is automatically registered.

Example

I want to play the 50k online tournament, I put myself in the semi lobby, people buy 1%snof me and have a sweat in a huge tournament, there is no chance I can scan as stars acts as an escrow automatically shipping the funds back and I don't have to worry about spending hours sending people back refunds.

Stars makes the rake I pay in the tournament.

This could happen at all stakes, even fish could put up a request to be stakes in the big 11 without being or feeling ridiculed, lots of people may be happy to invest 0.50 -> 11 in a random for a sweat.


Seems huge win win.

Thoughts?

+1 fort this ages ago just more like how you can buy t-money on it.stars culd have like a quik contract that stars make up on request both players singe and stars escros the$$ can even charge 2bucks

Don't think
A contract is necessary, just pop up box comes up when you have to confirm stating everything.

You could also use vpps!

+1

This is literally like the best idea ever.

+1 billion

What about markups though? This doesn't tackle that problem. It seems that your example is at face, which most aren't going to sell at.
I like the idea in principle, and it has potential to maybe work. I think it's unlikely to be implemented though, but it's more likely to be if Stars take a small cut as serving the escrow imo.

There are some logistical problems with your example though. But I could picture that it would work like: Player inputs into the lobby, that he wants to sell x amount, at x markup (or none), and will play if he sells a minimum of x amount.
But then do the buyers have all the info? Like do they know how much the player is wanting to sell, and how much his minimum % sold to play is? And do they know how much is left or if sold out/a waiting list? I don't see how it can really work without a buyer knowing at least some of this info.
Though then one downside of it is that other random people - who wouldn't have visited 2p2 MP or wherever to see it - can just click on this sub-lobby and see how much each player would have of themselves in that tournament. And players might not want it to be that public. And also I think it's bad as it's going to be an advantage to the other opponents who have that knowledge.
So maybe there would be some requirement for people to see this lobby and its details. E.g. you'd have to have expressed prior interest in x by registering for it somewhere, or signing up online, or by paying some refundable deposit.
And the other way that I think it could work regarding markup is having some kind of auction in the client. But that's likely to just complicate things further.

One other problem is: what happens if a player and his staker are playing at the same table in the tournament? Would complicate things and might not be allowed due to potential soft playing etc. And this way Stars would obv know that x has a % of y.

So it's a nice idea/principle, but I don't think it's likely to happen. And a lot of logistics would have to be ironed out.

No obviously no markups at all. That would be very easy to manipulate people.

This is simply, I want to play in this tournament, I can't afford it/don't want to put up the money, help me play it.

If you want to grind the markups and spend hours sending back and forth small amounts then sure. This would have a totally different concept and idea.

I also said its not disclosed, as soon as he's sold the amount he wants to sell then he is snap registered in the tournament. Changed from the "would like to play lobby" to the "registered lobby"

Ok, yeah if the player is just simply moved to the registered lobby once the requisite amount has been sold, then that's good, and essentially solves that problem.

I'm assuming the player has the info though? Like does he know who has bought what % of him?

And if everyone sells at face, I think the number of players willing to do this would comparatively be way smaller than otherwise. And because of that it would likely mostly be just to tough tournaments. Though it does ofc make it much simpler.

No he doesn't need to know who has bought what. It gives no value to him and anonymous trading is going to be way better. Maybe somebody could leave a note or something but I really don't think it's necessary at all.

I really disagree about the makeup part, lots of people especially fish would just want to play a tournament. I'm sure many many many people would so it in weak/small tournaments and mid stakes guys would do it in higher tourbamebtS etc etc

Sunday million for example would work really well but so would almost any tournament I could think of. Rebuys would be very tough to mange.

Rebuys don't seem too difficult. You could request X amount for rebuys based on the correct multiplier and during the tournament they are simply tickets for rebuys/addons, after the tournament is over, those tickets are converted back to cash and distributed as per % cuts. Plenty of far more complex things go on in the software than that.

eg. 109+R... You want 509 total to start... you're willing to put up 209... you request 300 and would get 3 tickets towards the event. If you busted all of those and added more cash money rebuys/addons, you'd be diluting your share only.

Unless I am missing something?

What about people who are blocked on opr? Would it be a pre-requisite that your opr is fully disclosed so investors can make the best informed decision possible?

Taxes? They differ from country to country
In Finland for example if the player own on Stars it wont be taxed but if he won from staking he will be taxed.

Could be the biggest issue why this cant be done by stars.

^ Interesting. I'm surprised it matters if it's all in/from the same account.

And also there's still the stakee-staker problem in the same tournament. So I'm guessing that Stars will either have to not allow them both to play the same mtt, or more likely just restrict the way it does between people who transfer frequently, so that they don't sit at the same table etc.

It does matter to us but its taxable and I don't think stars would want to start something like this where they could end up in trouble

How is this "problem" any different from two roommates playing in the same MTT? Stars has no problem with this as long as you do not collude/soft play. Same rules would apply.

If they implement harsh rules on what would % would qualify as significant influence, you take away one of the benefits of this idea; maximizing field sizes in a MTT.

Neat idea here, maybe make a seperate Marketplace tab in the stars client for it. I guess making the player selling action unaware of the SN's of those who invested is the best way to deal with some potential softplay/cheating issues (though I think stars knowing who and what % people have of the stakee should deter most from pulling any shady behavior one would think).

Either way not a bad idea, but if stars wants to take a greedy fee from the transactions it could really ruin the program altogether.

Yeah, with markup it could potentially get shady or disingenuous for if people oversold or were freerolling themselves etc., if the player doesn't have to give info for how much, and if they accept no responsibility.

Yeah it could definitely be good from a rec's p.o.v.
Though yes as fml said, it does bring up the issue of stats sharing/providing online. But no, I don't think that it should be a pre-requisite. Because there are going to be recs who don't even know that OPR/SS exist, and it's going to be better just to keep it that way.
So assuming it's a reg that has their stats blocked, then it's obv just their responsibility to unblock them, if they want a higher (though depends on the stats ofc) chance of selling pieces.

Also, I assume that Stars isn't going to take any accountability or responsibility for it, other than just as escrow? E.g. if a player who's staked just full-on punts an mtt, or just punts off rebuys, then they don't care and aren't going to do anything about it?
And I guess the player doesn't take any responsibility then either?
It brings up the point of some kind of possible reputation system for it. For example you get a + every time you sort a transaction successfully, and maybe the investors could potentially give you a +1 or -1 after.
Like a player can potentially somewhat abuse it by like late-regging at the very last second, or firing infinite rebuys/re-entries up until the last minute. It shouldn't matter for most tournaments, but some investors might not like that. So possibly some kind of stipulation for things like that, or where a player states beforehand what they will do, or sets option x for using a max of y number of rebuys, or even if the player has a box that they can write something in that potential investors can see. Which can also be a cool idea for where the player can encourage or entice people to invest in him.

Nice idea in theory but would probably require too much development to get Stars on board, considering they won't make a load of cash from it, like a rake hike.

It is quite innovative though, and im sure would be a whole new angle to mtts and reason to log onto stars for a lot of people.

I didn't understand the first half of your 2nd paragraph, (I guess you mis-worded it,) but I agree with the 2nd half of it.
Though if you think that Stars "has no problem" with it, then why do Stars not allow players who have frequently transferred money between eachother to play SnGs together?
Hopefully Stars should have no problem with it for big field MTTs, but I wouldn't be surprised if they also made it so that you couldn't/were less likely to sit with eachother in them.

This is a great idea and adds value for the recreational player. If pokerstars isn't smart enough to adopt this and spend the few bucks, a competitor may adopt it and have a unique selling point that pokerstars doesn't have. I think this would certainly generate more rake because more players are able to get into more tournaments and more money is being pumped into the system.

I'd envision players in the "semi-lobby" or whatever to have a little rectangular box next to their name that fills up green w the % as they sell to their goal. This way investors can easily and quickly know how much of the stake is still available, and how close/likely it is to running.

Don't understand why taxes should be any issue, your investment should basically be the same as the tournament buy-in screen, and be paid out the same way. It should reflect in your tournament history as the amount invested just as any tournament but maybe a different color and description.

People who don't want to sell at face should just buy in to the tournament or try to sell outside as they currently are. GL with that if this ever happens.

want 1% of pads in the 50k at no mu.

+1

The markup is a non issue here. It seems to me Pat's idea is targeted at the rec player buying into any mtt online, and the occasional reg who wants to try the ST , Sun500 or w/e high stakes mtt he usually doesnt get his nose in.

Seems like a great idea and shouldnt be too hard to implement technically

Each "semi-lobby" would have literally thousands of randomers wanting a stake for every tournament. It would be a complete nightmare as you'd probably end up with 1000 players selling 0.5% of themselves and 1% actually playing the tournament.