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QQxx KKxx JJxx AKxx BvB QQxx KKxx JJxx AKxx BvB

11-19-2014 , 04:25 AM
I'm new to PLO

Why isn't it the standard to 4bet/callshove 3bet/shove blind vs blind these hands, like it is in NLHE? I don't mean all JJxx QQxx AKxx hands, but the ones on the better side..

People seem to only play AAxx aggressively preflop, and sometimes KKxx BvB, or 67ss89ss, it feels like such a transparent strategy. The 4bet/3bet game in the blinds don't feel nearly as aggressive as NLHE. I know this was also the case early on in NLHE's evolution. I'm wondering if this will change as the game evolves more..?

Last edited by sacha.d; 11-19-2014 at 04:31 AM.
QQxx KKxx JJxx AKxx BvB Quote
11-19-2014 , 04:30 AM
Because you are never that much of a favourite with these hands in PLO. Even AAxx you are more than likely 65% preflop. PLO is really a post-flop game, where as NLHE you can be a 80% favourite preflop.
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11-19-2014 , 04:30 AM
Not all QQ/JJ/AK hands are as good in PLO as they are in NLHE - all the 4 hole cards and their interaction matter in PLO, and such hands need to have 'side cards' providing some straight potential (ideally with a suit or two) in order to be good because bare overpairs and non-nut flushes don't play well postflop. That said, HU/BvB this type of hands goes up in value as opposed to 6-10-max where double-suited rundowns/one-gappers are more valuable.
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11-19-2014 , 04:38 AM
I see.

What's the standard for playing a KKxx hand BvB? I can see myself calling with KKoT8ss, but wtf do I do with a hand like KK28 when facing a 3bet from the blinds - I assume calling to setmine is less profitable in PLO (even if it's likely to be top set). and 4bet/calling feels iffy..

I've been playing nl25, and I see some regs 4bet/callshove, 3bet/shove with any KKxx combo. Is this normal?

Hands like 78ss79ss, 43ss56ss do better vs aces 38%-45%. where KKxx is often ~30%.
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11-19-2014 , 05:51 AM
I can't really advise on playing BvB, but in general, there's a famous hand chart for 6-max by GGaRJ for UTG-BTN opening and blind defence from an UTG-BTN open and also a hand ranking function for HU/3-max/6-max/10-max at ProPokerTools that alas doesn't account for positions as it's based on pure preflop equity (to access the raw chart files, go to Help/Docs and scroll down). They're not solutions, but they'll give you an idea of where a hand stands in terms of strength.

Regarding KK28 rainbow or single-suited and similar raggy KK, I just fold it to a 3-bet in any position. It's hard for me to tell where to draw the line, it also depends on the opponent, of course - e.g. vs total maniacs 3-betting ~100%, I guess it's profitable to 4-bet it for value and shove every flop (but not flat the 3-bet).
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11-19-2014 , 06:01 AM
can't really compare nl and plo. they're different games
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11-19-2014 , 06:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by coon74
That said, HU/BvB this type of hands goes up in value as opposed to 6-10-max where double-suited rundowns/one-gappers are more valuable.
Ds $0g/$1g are better than QQ/JJ/AK as a collective (all suits inclusive, or even ss+) HU/BvB.

Quote:
Originally Posted by coon74
e.g. vs total maniacs 3-betting ~100%, I guess it's profitable to 4-bet it for value and shove every flop (but not flat the 3-bet).
Under those circumstances, 4b > call >>>>> fold, even for the worst KK.
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11-19-2014 , 08:11 AM
This is such a madly general question but I'd say it's a lousy idea to use "AKxx" or "JJxx" during a discussion about preflop equities in PLO. Without some major backup those are some ****ty ass hands and should be treated like all other random garbage hands.
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11-19-2014 , 10:59 AM
Because that's not how you play PLO. It's different to NLHE.
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