Well I kill live/online also but it's also insightful to read some extra some on the subject. Thanks for the post man

Forget bluffing 99% of the time...they wont care how well crafted your "story" is...they wont care that you raised pre...they wont care what the odds are..they wont care if you fire all 3 bullets...remember the old axiom..never bluff bad players. Ever

Yes. But the trick is figuring out how each one is terrible. Some will never fold with second pair-medium kicker, some will never call. And then half way through the night, they transform into each other. Get them mixed up at the wrong time and you will lose a lot of monies.

Lots of good information in this thread.

Here's another good thread on the same topic.


Lee

Most likely, if they're raising preflop with AK and they're OOP and the board bricks OTF, they're going to bluff right there and that's probably it. Call the flop, bet the turn when they check or just raise the flop, especially if it's heads up.

Some great stuff OP! thanks. What about Limit ? How much if any of this apply's to live limit poker?

a decent amount. Except not suited two gappers below Q9s imo.

Take free cards like it's your job. Don't try to iso-raise fish very much, you will get 2-3 cold callers and think "wtf?!". Also try not to play out of position much at all, it's a killer.

You must have some serious anger issues. why is he lying? I've read at least 20 poker books and I too have read both those books he mentioned.

I have none.. i actually do not believe in genuine negativity. It's only ever temporary.. anyways...

he's lying because there is no way he had read 18 poker books less valuable than Mike Caro's book on tells lmao.. Wait, hold on, Aren't you supposed to be an online player that hates tells? I think you just like trolling me.. perhaps cause you notice I have a natural ability for the game.. A lot of people do, don't worry, it's cool, leave me alone imo.

No, these books do not suck.. Where do you gather this implication from out of that post lol.... I was offering no advice, but simply pointing out that that guy could not have been possibly serious that an elementary book on tells could possibly be of more valuable information than other books on the market..

The advice that could have been taken or implied from statement, is

" Go read another book that's much more worth your time, Like Harrington on holdem etc."


GOSH!

Oh and I've been on this site for 4 years and don't post much, you think I have the same ******ed worries as you? No. I couldnt give a **** less about my post count lol I'm worried at GETTING BETTER AT POKER. Not making people think I'm good at poker. And I guarantee I've made more money than you playing poker jjusss sayin since you're getting all ugggglay. gg tho

Yep you got me. I purposely lied to advance some hidden agenda to promote the importance of tells.

Or

I genuinely believe what I've read on tells has helped my game more than any strategy book.

I guess I'm optimistic that people are smart enough not to think "ZOMG Caro's Book on Tells must be the best poker book ever written because Floridahawk said so, I'm never going to read any other book".

But seriously don't call other people trolls when you reply to a post with;

Some good advice in OP one small piece of advice I'll add that may save you some money playing live. When you raise 5x from early position and get 4 callers do not automatically discount AA/KK from peoples ranges. On several occasions I've ended up valueowning myself with my QQ/JJ.

Players are so bad that lots of them won't squeeze with those hands in late position and not knowing this can end up costing you a lot.

No. They'll bet flop (something fairly small to "see where they're at"), check/fold from there, and then mutter something under their breath about how they never win with AK, and how stupid it is to play it like it's a good hand. Note - however, if they pick up some sort of gutshot, they may call the turn. Also, TT and JJ also can involve such a line - bet pre, bet on flop then checking turn, so don't automatically assume it's AK.

Smile, nod, and agree with them. If you need to see a pro do this, watch Esfandari listen to Phil Ruffin joke about how AK is named Anna Kournikova because it looks good but never wins, and how he laughs as if he has never heard that joke before.

If you opened 22 and the board came 2-5-T-6-T this is a situation for a super-jam in a lot of cases; online I think the biggest I've done is 4-5 times the pot. Hell, live it's even harder for them to figure out the size of the pot.

Another good example would be when a passive opponent has shown any strength at all (raising pre, raising or check-raising a street), if you bink the nuts on the river, especially in position.

e.g. AhJh, flop is Jxx, we bet and get called, turn is 3 of hearts, we bet and get check min-raised, I call and a heart comes on the river I am jamming unless he checks or 1/3 pots it.

Who are you to say what books helped him or didnt. I am a mixed online player and live player. And if you think their arent tells online you are nuts, they just come in different forms. I mean you do realize that you have come across as an a** in every post you make and so far everyone has diasgreed with you. I mean that kind of makes you a troll that no one likes. So why not just not talk and let the grown ups handle the real poker discussions. mmkay pumpkin?

time to go pillage some live games thanks OP

Interesting thread. I only played NL live once, and it was only for an hour as I was with my wife and we had various other things to do while in the city. I did come out a few bucks ahead even though I was mostly card dead and only won two pots, and one was a junk hand in the BB (no PFR) that got checked to the river, where I made trips and got a little value bet paid off. The other pot was the only time I raised preflop. I had AQs in the SB, five loose-passive players limped, I raised to 10xBB, and to my surprise everyone folded. This was just before my hour was up, and as described by the OP and other posts here I hadn't previously seen anyone take down a pot preflop when there were several limpers.

So I kinda have to wonder if it's really true that loose players pay no attention to the fact that someone's tight. I'm sitting there folding, folding, folding while everyone else is like VPIP of 50-80%, and then suddenly I raise? I felt like they essentially put me on like QQ+ and wondered if I should perhaps open it up a little more next time, or maybe change tables periodically (as I do find it hard to overcome my nitty tendencies). Or is it good enough to just slurp up all the limps occasionally? (Or was this a fluke?)

I did read in the HoH cash books that really big raises (like 10xBB) are standard and routine at many live games, although I didn't see that where I played (in KC btw). Another book I really like (also from 2+2) is Professional No-Limit Hold 'Em. What I particularly found useful in that book is the discussion of stack-pot ratios (SPR). So if I do encounter a live game where people are making these huge raises and getting several others flat calling, how do I approach the SPR issue? I mean, if I'm set mining, great. But what if I'm playing a top pair or overpair type hand?

I have to say, although I haven't seen this advised in this thread or in any of the books I have, it strikes me that if I were in a game with 100BB effective stacks where it was common for there to be 20-30bbs in the pot when the action comes to me in late position (or especially if I'm in the blinds) without that being a sign of anyone being particularly strong, why not just play pairs and AK, maybe AQs? Set mine the smaller pairs, and with the bigger pairs and AK, just shove preflop. I'm sure there's something wrong with this strat so please set me straight.

Try maximizing value instead of taking what's only there.

I think what makes poker forums so great is the ability to post how good you are, and how bad everyone else is, without having to prove a word of it.

Without a doubt in the next few days this place will be inudated with all sorts of threads of how someone went live and just crushed all the games.

If just half the posters here were half as good as they claim to be, theyd have so much money they wouldnt waste there time on a forum

I play commerce, and the bike, so please would one of you superstars would give me headsup on when and where youll be there so I can watch and be dazzled by your brilliance.

The "never bluff bad players" is dead wrong.

Don't bluff calling stations, sure. But there are plenty of bad NL players out there who will make a loose call on the flop and then fold the turn when the bet gets bigger.

There are a couple of players I regularly target at my local Vegas poker room this way. They will call raises OOP with hands like AJos, call a C-bet on an Ace high or Jack-high board but then invariably fold when I make a sizable turn bet. They automatically assume you have a bigger pair or kicker. They'll even show you what a great fold they are making.

Granted, this isn't everyone, but if you plan on playing in the same room with a lot of the same people, you will get to know each player's tendencies.

Of course, you don't do this all of the time. But you will finds one or two players, like I have, who will fold to pressure. Target them. Isolate them when they limp and you're in late position. They'll call and then fold the flop or turn unless they hit it huge.

Thanks for the post OP. I'm 100% online making my first trip to the casino this week. I'm also strictly an sng player so I'm afraid I will be taken my first couple times. I've been playing the play money ring games on stars to get a feel for it, and am seeing many similarities to what is described in this post. Is the 1-2, 2-5 live anything like the play money ring games? I can't imagine its as crazy, but maybe on friday/saturday night?

If you're just starting to play live then jesus, don't play 2-5. i mean if you're bankrolled for it then bully for you, but i'd play 1-2 for at least 15 or 20 times before you go trying to figure out that game.

read a little.. tl;dr, bookmarked tho, definitely reading this in the morning! TY SIR!

Absolutely, you'll come across the player that loves making those great plays in an effort of validation, like folding 2nd nuts or calling with bottom pair.

I know your exact type.. I could almost hear your voice as I read the part about grownups and pumpkins.. Lol.. You think I don't know what I'm doing? It's called dynamic, and this serves a multitude of purposes. Mainly, entertainment. Don't sweat me too hard man, just a twenty something gosh darn know it all. My shades must be too dark and blockin my gdamn vision.