There's been a significant change in action. Pre was limp/check. On the flop villain check-called. Then on the turn, he leads out. Conditions are not the same as they were pre-flop.

i assume what he means is if you are going to be very uncomfortable/make bad decisions postflop in marginal spots with this kind of hand, that you would be better off folding this kind of hand preflop (so that you are less likely to get into marginal spots later in the hand).

Yeah but you didn't know who the Villain was going to be preflop.

While the general rule is totally correct, I'd like to point out this specific spot isn't that marginal.

i don't disagree, but if someone is at a stage in their game/development where they think it is, then being tighter pf is a reasonable adjustment

FWIW, I agree with BBB.

Well, the really nice thing about LHE is that most of the time I'm not VERY uncomfortable in any hand because I'm only going to lose another few bets. (I've played a lot more NL than LHE)

Lots of good comments from everyone ITT. Thanks, I appreciate it.

This was my thinking at game speed: When villain went from checking to leading out, it set off alarm bells. There was no indication that I wouldn't continue to bet when the 2 hit the turn, so why lead? He wants to make sure a bet goes in on this street. And he's not afraid I might raise it. I concluded he had a 4 for sure, for an OESD at minimum, and more than likely an ace to go with it. I was pretty sure I was beat already, and didn't think he'd make such a strong move with just a draw. I decided to call down anyway because I've seen this guy playing a lot lately, and it was worth it to me to find out if he would make this sort of play with a draw, for future reference.

It never occurred to me he might have hit 2 pair because I would've expected a c/r or c/c in that case. Anyway, I know I'm still too MUBSy in general.

I think you forgot to factor in our unannounced range. Does that change your decision?

Agree with you about our n-1 range increasing but what are granted outs?

I can get behind this.

Yup, we flopped a weak top pair and are probably going to lose the hand to some stupid two pair. I fold preflop too.

The majority of players in this game will play any ace. Therefore A8o is actually probably average or even slightly better than the average ace hand.

Yeah pretty much this.

But what about the EV of playing more hands and having fun?!

Partially joking, but there is truth to it.

If we want to crush and make money, we should be playing micros online to learn how to play proper LHE. We can play against better players, and get hundreds more hands in. Then, we can transition to live 10/20 or higher if that is more profitable, avoiding 6/12 and lower altogether. Part of playing live 6/12 is for the enjoyment. In which case, we should be striving to play marginal spots because we're not losing much money EV but gaining lots of fun EV.

I agree with those who say to call, and am afraid of the bet-fold line in general (but this is probably a major leak in my game). All I have to add is that with a made straight/ set there is some percentage of check-raising (let's say 20 percent?) which makes him having top pair more likely.

oh, I also like folding this pre-flop. One of the major weaknesses I see on this forum is that people are too smart for their own good, and play a ton of hands they really ought not play. A8o Does not seem like a playable hand to those who wrote the books on small stakes limit hold'em, is in no way safe when you flop top-pair (as your example suggests) and gives worse opponents fairly good odds against you when you can easily wait for a much greater edge. Then again, people talk about raising suited connectors all the time (hands that I rather not deal with, myself, at all) so of course your play is twoplustwo standard :-).

If I'd had AA and raised pre-flop, I doubt very much the action would have gone any differently in this hand. They all checked to me on the flop anyway, I bet and got called, then villain led the turn. Sure, I'd be less certain of what to do, but if A8 is beaten here, so is AA.

No.

What should you do with your weak top pear...eat it!!

Personally I would call turn/river unless something odd hits board...he could well have an OK 8 and puts you on QJ type hands....I don't play live but lots of micro online players do this to make sure 1 bet goes in...they don't think about getting raised as they don't tend to think full stop..