Is it possible to not have enough value combos to fill in with? - Poker Theory

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Is it possible to not have enough value combos to fill in with?

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06-16-2017 , 12:39 AM

smokey93

journeyman

Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 279

Greetings all,

I have just a couple of days ago finally understood the concept of GTO.

I have practicing on it, and have stumbled upon this issue.

My early position opening is about 12%.

Now, I need 38 combos of value but I am only able to get 30.

The FLOP should be, Qs9h3s

My range is as follows,

AA-22 , ATs-AKs , KTs-KQs , QTs-QJs , JTs-56s

AKo , AQo

What could I do to get the other 8 combos?

Please advise

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06-16-2017 , 12:43 AM

ZKesic

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Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 2,093

Your post makes no sense

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06-16-2017 , 12:46 AM

smokey93

journeyman

Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 279

Mind to elaborate which part makes no sense?

Thanks in advance

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06-16-2017 , 12:48 AM

ZKesic

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 2,093

Why do you need exactly 38 combos?

Also...
[QQ+, 99, 33, AQs, AQo, KQs, JQs(66%)]
This is 38 combos that you wanted...

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06-16-2017 , 12:52 AM

ZKesic

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Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 2,093

It's impossible in poker to not have enough value hands. You're balancing your value range with bluffs, not the other way around.

Last edited by ZKesic; 06-16-2017 at 12:58 AM.

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06-16-2017 , 12:53 AM

smokey93

journeyman

Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 279

Ah I see!

Thank you ZKesic!

There isn't a specific number, but that's what I learnt(Edit : I rather, what I understood, which might be wrong), (please do advise further thanks) that there should be 1 part value to 2 parts bluff.

And so, if we were to continue with 70% of the hands, it's probably around 38 combos of value to 2 parts of bluff.

I wonder how I could go about it to improve what I need to, please do let me know, thanks ^^

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06-16-2017 , 12:56 AM

ZKesic

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Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 2,093

First decide which hands you want to value bet on this flop (you said 30 hands), then choose x2 amount of bluffs to balance it (=60 bluffs). So you'll be CBetting 90/162 combos= 55%, which seems fine. That's a better way to aproach this.

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06-16-2017 , 12:58 AM

smokey93

journeyman

Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 279

Thanks ZKesic!

I'll go try it out now, thanks!

Have a good day ahead!

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06-16-2017 , 12:59 AM

ZKesic

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Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 2,093

No problem.

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06-16-2017 , 01:06 AM

#10

smokey93

journeyman

Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 279

Hey ZKesic!

I have a question.

You mentioned that 55% seems fine.

I am wondering if 70% cbet rate is too high

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06-16-2017 , 01:09 AM

#11

ZKesic

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Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 2,093

70% seems a bit high to me, but depends on positions/opponents.
Usually regs CBet around 50-70%.

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06-16-2017 , 01:15 AM

#12

smokey93

journeyman

Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 279

As suggested, it depends on position/opponents, in what way would be a good way to adjust the cbet %?

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06-16-2017 , 01:23 AM

#13

ZKesic

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Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 2,093

If opponets overfold to CB you can CB wider.
If they check raise a lot, CB less.
vs bad opponents you can generally CB a bit wider than vs good regs.

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06-16-2017 , 01:26 AM

#14

smokey93

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Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 279

I see, it seems like a mix of exploitative style as well if I didn't understand it wrongly

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06-16-2017 , 01:49 AM

#15

ZKesic

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Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 2,093

Yeah, it's good to adjust to opponents a bit. GTO isn't everything.

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06-16-2017 , 07:18 AM

#16

Brokenstars

Verified Coach NLHE

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 16,104

You need to state what the preflop action/positions/# of players/stack sizes, etc. are before even considering what to do on the flop

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06-16-2017 , 08:09 AM

#17

Bob148

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 11,972

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZKesic

It's impossible in poker to not have enough value hands. You're balancing your value range with bluffs, not the other way around.

Yup this.

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06-16-2017 , 11:07 AM

#18

smokey93

journeyman

Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 279

HI Brokenstars!

1/2 live game

Hero(UTG) (200$) : Open raised to 12$

V(CUTOFF)($190~) : CALLS 12$

And came the FLOP

V is the typical loose passive player who plays as a hobby.

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06-16-2017 , 11:08 AM

#19

smokey93

journeyman

Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 279

Hi Bob148!

Thanks for pointing that out! ^^

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06-16-2017 , 11:12 AM

#20

smokey93

journeyman

Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 279

I have a couple of questions, I would like to ask this one first while I collect my thoughts on the other questions.

Here it goes

What should calling frequencies do?

Assuming we called preflop IP and have 30 combos in our check/calling range.

If V's cbetting% is 50%, is it right to assume we should call 50% of our 30 combos?

And if we were to call 15 combos, how do we profit by calling to defend?

Do we even profit at all? Are we defending just to deny V from profiting by betting a certain % against us, just enough so that V couldn't profit from our fold %?

Please advise!

Thanks in advance!!

Last edited by smokey93; 06-16-2017 at 11:26 AM.

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06-18-2017 , 10:50 AM

#21

Shamway99

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Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 3,348

Defend frequency depends on cb size not on cb frequency (unless you exploit V).
When V cbets pot our def frequency is close to 50%. Count both call and raise as defense move. And 50% is not a strict math rule, there are flops you defend less and flops you defend more.

In general we defend cause we expect our move to be +EV, not to deny V profit. But often it is the same only diferent wording.

"And if we were to call 15 combos, how do we profit by calling to defend?" Not sure what you meant. But basicaly your call can win these ways: Win showdown with better made hand, improve by hitting out, take pot with bluff on later street.

""

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06-18-2017 , 11:26 AM

#22

Shamway99

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Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 3,348

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06-18-2017 , 03:42 PM

#23

yasuo

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Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 2,105

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZKesic

It's impossible in poker to not have enough value hands. You're balancing your value range with bluffs, not the other way around.

no. if opponent's range is only the absolute nuts, then we will not have any value bets

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06-18-2017 , 04:19 PM

#24

RustyBrooks

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Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 24,647

If your opponent's range is only nuts, how many bluffs should you have? Is it possible to "not have enough value bets" to balance this number?

Last edited by RustyBrooks; 06-20-2017 at 01:52 PM.

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06-20-2017 , 01:31 PM

#25

smokey93

journeyman

Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 279

Hi Shamway99 , Yasuo and RustyBrooks!

Was busy the last two days.

Shall read and digest the information provided first.

Thanks!

I'll ask further questions and debate here as I think about them

brb

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