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[6Max Cash] Defending Small Pocket Pairs vs 3Bets? [6Max Cash] Defending Small Pocket Pairs vs 3Bets?

03-21-2017 , 02:44 PM
This is something I struggle with and I'm not quite sure how should I proceed when I open a pp and face a 3bet.

Let's assume:
- 100BB Deep
- I open 3x, got raised to 9-10BB
- We are readless

Questions:
1) Should we call to set mine? (while occasionally continuing on some flops I guess we can't call only for set mining)

2) Assuming we always have 100BB, how many BB's should villain have for us to justify the call?

3) How should we adjust being OOP vs being IP. Let's break this into 2 major occurrences:
- We open from UTG or MP and get raised from CO or BTN
- We open from CO or BTN and get raised from SB or BB

Thanks in advance for any help!
[6Max Cash] Defending Small Pocket Pairs vs 3Bets? Quote
03-22-2017 , 05:56 AM
Well if you want to play balanced I'm sure somebody here will be able to tell you the 'correct' play in either of those situations.

As an exploitative player, I would need far more information about the opponent to see which would be the best play. We're going in blind at the moment... In general set mining works a lot better if we're in position so that we can make that extra profit you mentioned, but we might well be able to call planning to hit or fold. It completely depends on the opponent

Last edited by Yadoula8; 03-22-2017 at 06:03 AM.
[6Max Cash] Defending Small Pocket Pairs vs 3Bets? Quote
03-22-2017 , 04:02 PM
Not enough info, but in most cases I am not defending in the position you described
[6Max Cash] Defending Small Pocket Pairs vs 3Bets? Quote
03-22-2017 , 06:12 PM
Knowing which stakes you play would help, as set-mining in 3-bet pots might be very profitable against nitfish at nanostakes, but less profitable a bit higher up. (Or the reverse might be true. Do 5NL nitfish always have QQ+/AK when they 3-bet pre and c-bet the flop, and if so do they pay off when you bink a set?)

That said, at 100bb deep, be much less likely to call with small pairs when OOP compared to IP, as realizing your equity is easier in position. OOP, you're rarely going to get to a cheap showdown (or even a free turn card), so you need a stronger range in that situation. If you want somewhere to draw the line by default, try calling with 88+ when you're OOP, and 44+ in position, or something like that, and then adjust based on player pool tendencies and your relative skill level (e.g. call a bit wider - which might be 66+ OOP, 22+ IP - if you're a handreading boss, call tighter if you're not).
[6Max Cash] Defending Small Pocket Pairs vs 3Bets? Quote
03-22-2017 , 07:01 PM
I would agree, bet pots might be very profitable against nitfish at nanostakes, but less profitable a bit higher up. Higher ups might be able to outplay you post flop, and it's better to limit pot size in that situation.
[6Max Cash] Defending Small Pocket Pairs vs 3Bets? Quote
03-22-2017 , 11:15 PM
(1) Yes, as long as (like you implied) you're playing your range reasonably effectively postflop and not solely calling to setmine

(2) Be more likely to fold your worst pairs if they have less BBs

(3) OOP the positional disadvantage will make your low and middle pairs unprofitable as 3bet calls. As you improve at playing your range postflop, you may find that you can add some of these back in to your calling range, but this takes studying/experience

IP rarely fold if heads up, but you can fold the lowest ones if your relative position is bad in a 3 or 4 way pot (if you open 22 in CO, BU calls, SB calls, BB 3bets, go ahead and fold)
[6Max Cash] Defending Small Pocket Pairs vs 3Bets? Quote
03-23-2017 , 02:27 PM
Is it really ok to be set mining for 10% of our stack? I think opponent 3b% and C-bet% is going be pretty important to take into consideration. You have to remember that 1/10th of your stack is a lot when set mining.
[6Max Cash] Defending Small Pocket Pairs vs 3Bets? Quote
03-23-2017 , 09:00 PM
I think you can almost always call unless they 3b pretty large
[6Max Cash] Defending Small Pocket Pairs vs 3Bets? Quote
03-28-2017 , 10:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brokenstars
I think you can almost always call unless they 3b pretty large
I agree. Also there is hidden ev vs players that will let you win a check down battle when they miss.
[6Max Cash] Defending Small Pocket Pairs vs 3Bets? Quote
03-29-2017 , 08:18 PM
I developed an implied odds model which includes the probability you will hit a possible winning out (e.g., you hit your low set) and the chance the hit results in a win. I applied it to the low pair situation of the OP without the 3-bet. To simplify the discussion, we will assume that a villain is the initial bettor pre-flop so hero’s pre-flop action is a call and villain will always call hero’s bet if hero hits on the flop and bets.

To provide an assessment of the relationship of implied odds to set mining, the following table shows the needed implied odds where the flop-hit probability is fixed at 12% and the call pre-flop ranges from 10% of the pot to 40% of the pot. The range for the conditional win probability (W) is set at 0.55 to 1.0 and it is assumed villain will always call hero’s flop bet.

Required Implied Odds For Set Mining
Hit Probability = 12%
Call Amount as Fraction of Pot
W 0.10 0.15 0.20 0.30 0.40
0.55 32.8 47.8 55.3 62.8 66.6
0.60 18.7 25.3 28.7 32.0 33.7
0.65 13.9 17.8 19.8 21.7 22.7
0.70 11.6 14.1 15.3 16.6 17.2
0.75 10.2 11.8 12.7 13.5 13.9
0.80 9.2 10.3 10.9 11.4 11.7
0.85 8.5 9.3 9.6 10.0 10.2
0.90 8.0 8.5 8.7 8.9 9.0
1.00 7.3 7.3 7.3 7.3 7.3

We see that the conventional 15 to 1 implied odds for set-mining applies best when a call of 0.2*Pot is required and the chance the low/middle set wins is 70%. Using the 15:1 ratio for W values higher than 0.70 is conservative but the assumptions used such as villain’s always calling or having enough stack may call for such conservatism. Note that as W increases, the call amount impact decreases and has no effect when W=1.

PM me if you want model details.
[6Max Cash] Defending Small Pocket Pairs vs 3Bets? Quote

      
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