Do not stake: Legendus
11-24-2010
, 01:37 PM
Hello,
I have recently run into problems with the horse Legendus (s/n on 2+2 as well as Tilt+Stars).
Background:
I started staking Legendus in early July. The basic contract that we agreed upon is as follows:
Staking Agreement for thess12345 and Legendus
Thess12345 will provide Legendus backing in MTTs for a minimum of 6 months, with a rolling contract after that where on the 25th of each month they shall either both agree to continue the contract or it should be voided. The terms of the deal are as follows:
To start the stake, Legendus has a $2,000 “Bankroll”. He will be allowed to play in up to $22 FO and $5R, which will be at a 50/50 cut. If he plays in a $33 FO (which thess12345 must agree on), it will be a 60/40 profits cut in thess12345s favor.
If/When Legendus has made $1000 for thess12345 (ie a new “bankroll” of $3000), he can play up to $33 FO. Once his new bankroll is over $3500, he can take the occasional shot at a $55FO, which will be at a 60/40 backers cut.
If/when Legendus has a bankroll of $5,500, he can play up $55FOs and $11R at a 50/50 cut. He can also play a maximum of 1 $109 MTT a week at a 60/40 backers cut.
If/when Legendus has a bankroll of $11,000, he can play up to $109FO. He will also be able to take occasional shots at Sunday Majors at backers discretion. The split will be based on his bankroll-if it is above $17,500, but below $25,000, it will be 65/35; if it is between $11,000 and $17,500, the split will be a 75/25 backers cut of profits.
If/When Legendus has a bankroll of $25,000, he will be allowed to play up to $109FOs and $50R at a 50/50 cut.
If thess12345 decides to stop the backing before 6 months is up-If legendus is in MU, no penalty. If he is positive money, he owes ¼ of the net profit back to legendus.
If Legendus decides to stop the backing before 6 months is up-If legendus is in MU, there will be a penalty of one and a half times MU (ie MU is 100, legendus owes 150). If legendus if up money, he owes ½ of the money earned to thess12345, with a minimum buy out of $500, and a maximum of $10,000).
(more on things we agreed to later). Obviously, this is not the most detailed contract, but it covers everything that is important in our staking agreement. This covers mostly moving up as well as procedure for backing out of contract.
The first problem with legendus came on July 19th. (Full detail can be seen here:http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/13...e-read-832497/).
To summarize, Legendus ended up having two backers-one for MTTs, and one for KO SnGs on Tilt. Bignate and I went back and forth on who was owed the money for the HU tournament that Legendus won. In the end, we settled, and I kept Legendus on as a horse. At the time, I beleived that all it was was a miscommunication-the wording in Bignates contract was extremely ambiguous.
Fast forward to August 10th. There has been 0 problems up until this point. Legendus then goes on to win two $22 MTTs on the same day, for a total profit of about $7,500. After MU, the amount owed was about $4,000. He maxed out his transfer limits that day and shipped me 1K, but still needed to provide ID to increase his limits. This was fine by me, becasue he had proven to me over the last month to be trustworthy. The next day he sent $870, at which point he had maxed out his weekly spending limit.
Here is a copy of an Email that he sent me:
Hey,
As I said in my previous message, my transfer limit at this point is still at 2k max in 7 days. Ive filled in the form and send it to PS, so it should be fixed soon so I can send the remaing +/- 2400$
For tomorrow, Pepijn will come to me again and we'll play again. Shall I make up a list that u need to agree on? And use money from that 2400 to play?
Shipped the 22s, now it's time for the 55s!
In this message, it clearly shows that he knows that he still owes me money, as well as the fact that he knows he is now going to be playing 55s on my dime.
For the next three weeks, I do not hear from him. I send him multiple emails and PMs, but I get no reply. Finally, on September 5th, he sends me this message:
Hey, Im really sorry about the delay and stuff. Am very busy with work etc, and im in some sort of fight with my parents.
U will have the money very soon, no worries, ill send u the first 1k this weekend, which is today.
Sorry, really.
I guess I'm a little bit gullible, but I took him for his word. A month or so later, I still had not recieved the money. At this point, I should have posted on 2+2 but did not. Finally, on November 1st, I sent this email:
Kevin,
I have been more than lienent with you. You have until Thursday to respond to my messages or I will make sure you never get a stake again. I trusted you an went to bat for you, now you're screwing me. Thursday or every potential backer will know you're a scam artist.
Tyler
He replies saying that he only checks his email every 1/2 weeks and that he forgot about the money he owed me. At this point, I knew he was full of **** because I had been emailing him once a week for a month and a half. This was also where things began to get really sticky. I checked his playing records, and realized that within the past month, he had taken down a lot of money. He had multiple 4 score finished, including just under $4k in a $55 as well as another $3K shortly after. Following this, I also realized that his net amount won would have now allowed him to play in $109FOs. He went on to win $10K in a $109. On top of that, he did not take better than 4th in any of these three tournaments, so he very easily could have made a deal at some point and won more than that. The last tournament he won was a $22^3 for 10K. (this number could be lower if he chopped)
In the end, he ended up netting 22.8K, which leaves my 50% at $11.5K. He is saying that he does not owe me that money becasue I had not agreed to let him play in those tournaments and had not talked to me in almost two months. On the contrary, I'm saying that he owes me the 11.5K based simply on the fact that everything we had agreed on at that points points to him oweing me said money, as well as the fact that he had over $1,000 of my money when he played in these tournaments. He has since paid off the last portion of the money, but continues delaying anything regarding the 11.5K, stating that hes going to "send me a proposal". It's been 3 weeks, and I still don't have said proposal.
Sorry for the tl;dr, but please let me know if I am in the wrong in any way shape or form here.
Thanks,
Tyler
I have recently run into problems with the horse Legendus (s/n on 2+2 as well as Tilt+Stars).
Background:
I started staking Legendus in early July. The basic contract that we agreed upon is as follows:
Staking Agreement for thess12345 and Legendus
Thess12345 will provide Legendus backing in MTTs for a minimum of 6 months, with a rolling contract after that where on the 25th of each month they shall either both agree to continue the contract or it should be voided. The terms of the deal are as follows:
To start the stake, Legendus has a $2,000 “Bankroll”. He will be allowed to play in up to $22 FO and $5R, which will be at a 50/50 cut. If he plays in a $33 FO (which thess12345 must agree on), it will be a 60/40 profits cut in thess12345s favor.
If/When Legendus has made $1000 for thess12345 (ie a new “bankroll” of $3000), he can play up to $33 FO. Once his new bankroll is over $3500, he can take the occasional shot at a $55FO, which will be at a 60/40 backers cut.
If/when Legendus has a bankroll of $5,500, he can play up $55FOs and $11R at a 50/50 cut. He can also play a maximum of 1 $109 MTT a week at a 60/40 backers cut.
If/when Legendus has a bankroll of $11,000, he can play up to $109FO. He will also be able to take occasional shots at Sunday Majors at backers discretion. The split will be based on his bankroll-if it is above $17,500, but below $25,000, it will be 65/35; if it is between $11,000 and $17,500, the split will be a 75/25 backers cut of profits.
If/When Legendus has a bankroll of $25,000, he will be allowed to play up to $109FOs and $50R at a 50/50 cut.
If thess12345 decides to stop the backing before 6 months is up-If legendus is in MU, no penalty. If he is positive money, he owes ¼ of the net profit back to legendus.
If Legendus decides to stop the backing before 6 months is up-If legendus is in MU, there will be a penalty of one and a half times MU (ie MU is 100, legendus owes 150). If legendus if up money, he owes ½ of the money earned to thess12345, with a minimum buy out of $500, and a maximum of $10,000).
(more on things we agreed to later). Obviously, this is not the most detailed contract, but it covers everything that is important in our staking agreement. This covers mostly moving up as well as procedure for backing out of contract.
The first problem with legendus came on July 19th. (Full detail can be seen here:http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/13...e-read-832497/).
To summarize, Legendus ended up having two backers-one for MTTs, and one for KO SnGs on Tilt. Bignate and I went back and forth on who was owed the money for the HU tournament that Legendus won. In the end, we settled, and I kept Legendus on as a horse. At the time, I beleived that all it was was a miscommunication-the wording in Bignates contract was extremely ambiguous.
Fast forward to August 10th. There has been 0 problems up until this point. Legendus then goes on to win two $22 MTTs on the same day, for a total profit of about $7,500. After MU, the amount owed was about $4,000. He maxed out his transfer limits that day and shipped me 1K, but still needed to provide ID to increase his limits. This was fine by me, becasue he had proven to me over the last month to be trustworthy. The next day he sent $870, at which point he had maxed out his weekly spending limit.
Here is a copy of an Email that he sent me:
Hey,
As I said in my previous message, my transfer limit at this point is still at 2k max in 7 days. Ive filled in the form and send it to PS, so it should be fixed soon so I can send the remaing +/- 2400$
For tomorrow, Pepijn will come to me again and we'll play again. Shall I make up a list that u need to agree on? And use money from that 2400 to play?
Shipped the 22s, now it's time for the 55s!
In this message, it clearly shows that he knows that he still owes me money, as well as the fact that he knows he is now going to be playing 55s on my dime.
For the next three weeks, I do not hear from him. I send him multiple emails and PMs, but I get no reply. Finally, on September 5th, he sends me this message:
Hey, Im really sorry about the delay and stuff. Am very busy with work etc, and im in some sort of fight with my parents.
U will have the money very soon, no worries, ill send u the first 1k this weekend, which is today.
Sorry, really.
I guess I'm a little bit gullible, but I took him for his word. A month or so later, I still had not recieved the money. At this point, I should have posted on 2+2 but did not. Finally, on November 1st, I sent this email:
Kevin,
I have been more than lienent with you. You have until Thursday to respond to my messages or I will make sure you never get a stake again. I trusted you an went to bat for you, now you're screwing me. Thursday or every potential backer will know you're a scam artist.
Tyler
He replies saying that he only checks his email every 1/2 weeks and that he forgot about the money he owed me. At this point, I knew he was full of **** because I had been emailing him once a week for a month and a half. This was also where things began to get really sticky. I checked his playing records, and realized that within the past month, he had taken down a lot of money. He had multiple 4 score finished, including just under $4k in a $55 as well as another $3K shortly after. Following this, I also realized that his net amount won would have now allowed him to play in $109FOs. He went on to win $10K in a $109. On top of that, he did not take better than 4th in any of these three tournaments, so he very easily could have made a deal at some point and won more than that. The last tournament he won was a $22^3 for 10K. (this number could be lower if he chopped)
In the end, he ended up netting 22.8K, which leaves my 50% at $11.5K. He is saying that he does not owe me that money becasue I had not agreed to let him play in those tournaments and had not talked to me in almost two months. On the contrary, I'm saying that he owes me the 11.5K based simply on the fact that everything we had agreed on at that points points to him oweing me said money, as well as the fact that he had over $1,000 of my money when he played in these tournaments. He has since paid off the last portion of the money, but continues delaying anything regarding the 11.5K, stating that hes going to "send me a proposal". It's been 3 weeks, and I still don't have said proposal.
Sorry for the tl;dr, but please let me know if I am in the wrong in any way shape or form here.
Thanks,
Tyler
11-24-2010
, 01:51 PM
11-24-2010
, 02:03 PM
11-24-2010
, 06:51 PM
Man before I even got into the meat of this thread I was entranced by the monster you linked in your OP. And I just have to say, having read the whole thread (except for the ridiculously long AIM convo) the ending was very anti-climactic.
Aside from that, sucks about this guy blowing you up for ~11k. Hope you can work out something, although I wouldn't hold my breath
Aside from that, sucks about this guy blowing you up for ~11k. Hope you can work out something, although I wouldn't hold my breath
