View Single Post
Old 10-03-2020, 06:14 PM   #3466
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 924
Re: Official Outer Limits/Debunking Thread

Re Coriolis effect as claimed for Earth - not I might add the Coriolis effect per se which is a phenomenon that does exist where there is motion with respect to a rotating frame - to which the question I ask in the other thread is whether the effect can be explained in terms of a single reference frame. Where the claim is made that only one reference frame is required to describe the effect, the description always invokes a second reference frame. 2 reference frames are required to cause the Coriolis effect - a body moving inertially but viewed from the perspective of a non-inertial rotating frame appears to deviate from its straight path.

I pose the argument re aeroplanes recording reduced or increased flight times in this way:

Globe claim:

Earth is claimed to rotate. Freely moving bodies which move above the Earth are claimed to appear to deviate when viewed from the perspective of a rotating Earth - ie the Coriolis effect. This is claimed to apply to air masses to cause hurricanes; footballs, javelins etc, and bullets. The cause of Coriolis deviation is the movement of freely moving bodies as Earth rotates independently underneath - the bodies appear to deviate from their actual paths because we are observers on the rotating frame of Earth.

Debunked once

There is no record of a single Coriolis deviation of a bullet, ball or other body.

(The Foucault pendulum is claimed as evidence of a Coriolis deviation. This is usually asserted by the unwitting as "a deviation" - "the plane of oscillation rotates". This is in fact a stationary Earth description - the plane of oscillation actually deviates over a stationary Earth. The spinning Earth description necessitates a plane of oscillation that remains fixed as Earth turns underneath. In any case, there is no way to verify using the results solely from a pendulum whether it is Earth turning underneath or the plane of oscillation rotating over a stationary Earth)

Debunked twice

If Earth rotates independently underneath freely moving balls, bullets, air masses and pendulums then it also rotates independently underneath aeroplanes. A flight from East to West would record reduced flight times as Earth rotates independently underneath - as per the claim made to cause the Earth based Coriolis effect. Yet flight times are recorded without such alteration, precisely as if Earth were stationary.


Freely moving bodies such as bullets are claimed to experience Coriolis deviation - which means the bullet flies straight while Earth turns independently underneath, yet the deviation has never been validated. In the situation of aeroplanes, which are in the air for a long time and have many records of flight times, ie plenty of empirical data, there is no evidence of a plane - a freely moving body, ie not attached to the claimed rotating frame of Earth - moving independently of the Earth as a rotating reference frame.

Rebuttals to this argument focus on conservation of momentum due to the plane being on the rotating frame when sat on the runway. This ignores the necessary causes of the Coriolis effect which is a non-inertial rotating frame independent of an inertially moving body. Once the argument is correctly focussed on the reference frames the rebuttal is that the plane is actually still part of the rotating frame - it does not move in an inertial frame at all but because it is powered through the air, and the air rotates with Earth, the plane stays precisely with the rotating reference frame and therefore does not need to adjust its flight. But this is horse poop - air is claimed to move in straight lines while Earth turns underneath causing hurricanes. They do love to have their cake and scoff it.

Coriolis effect exists - it the lack of Coriolis effect for Earth that is a solid proof Earth does not rotate. If it did then the Coriolis effect would be observed for all bodies moving freely above Earth.
1&onlybillyshears is offline   Reply With Quote