View Single Post
Old 09-18-2020, 02:11 PM   #118
Aaron W.
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 30,084
Re: Something from nothing

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmr View Post
I agree with the gist of what you are saying. We all know we had/have beliefs and preferences prior to thinking deeply about them and concluding they were the right beliefs and preferences to have. However, that doesn't mean we should expect to win debates or be persuasive if we rely on gut feelings as part of an argument.
Indeed.

Quote:
I suspect another way of explaining the paradigm you are describing is that "experience" drives our beliefs when we lack good reasons for them. If you were able to use reasoning and data to prove or disprove the existence of some God or gods, it would enter the realm of those things which can be proven by "logic" and don't require "experience." I don't have any good reason to think that everything in the "experience" category is different from fantasy or day dreaming or wishful thinking.
I think this is erroneous. I'm not saying that experiences alone determine our beliefs. I'm certainly not rejecting the role of evaluated experiences in the process of developing our beliefs. But I am also not separating the experiences and the evaluation of those experiences as being two separate things. In fact, the process of evaluating our experiences are themselves experiences, and those experiences further shape our beliefs over time.

I consider it a grave error to try to draw a line between "experience-driven" beliefs and "reason-driven" beliefs. The latter category is merely a subset of the former.

Quote:
But I just want to see you two have a conversation, not a meta conversation about why you won't have a conversation.
It's unlikely to happen. MB struggles to hold up his end when it comes to just trying to discuss things reasonably. I've posted a link to his four most recent threads (ignoring this one), and they all go down the same path.
Aaron W. is offline   Reply With Quote