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Old 11-17-2019, 07:07 PM   #286
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 1
Re: How gto scammers work in husng

Hello everyone,

This is Xrab, I figured to make a statement - not to excuse my actions, but to provide my perspective, tell the history so far in hu hypers since I joined, expose the outraging hypocracy of the people behind this video ( how evil xrab bot is terrorizing normal players ), shed light on quite a few misconceptions mentioned here and last but not least, settle the score with our dear rivals, thanks to whom we have this thread.
I will do my best to explain everything in as much detail as possible and provide proof for it.

Let's start with what I think is the biggest misconception - that I scammed recreationals and drained a ton of money out of the poker economy. The way hu sngs work is that whoever holds the lobby, gets to play vs the recreational players and thus makes money. Whatever money recreationals or other format regs ( mtt/plo or whatever ) lose in hu hypers, would have been lost anyway to whoever was opensitting those lobbies. It is like saying that currently recreationals on pokerstars are being scammed in hu sngs. Neither me, nor any other player with some hu hyper background doesn't need any kind of assistance to beat a recreational or other format reg. As a matter of fact, playing gto vs them is a lot less profitable, than playing exploitatively. With all this being said, the real "scammed" players are actually the top legit hu hyper regulars, who would have held the lobbies, if there were no bots.

Second point is the amount of money won numbers that are thrown around are grossly exagerated. Yes, there is profit to be made in hu hypers while situation is calm, but bot wars are super frequent and a shitton of rake is being burned in them, during which everyone loses money ( only rooms win ). Additionally there are research and technical costs. Finally there is stuff like room confiscating your money, not that I find it unfair.

Third point I would like to make is that I don't even feel I have scammed these legit players. HU hypers are solved and when they are solved, there will be bots. It is up to rooms to make sure that they have good security and bots are detected. However that is a difficult and expensive task for rooms and it has been and will continue to be hard for them to deal with it. HU sngs on euro sites have been bot infested for quite a while and this has been known by the community.

Which brings me to my fourth point. When I started doing this, euro sites were already 99% bot infested and when I tried to join the divisions, it was only bot vs bot play.
No legit player could ever get in.
HU hypers were already occupied by a few different bot groups, I will give a brief history of how things unfolded ever since I tried to join the divisions, but for that we are going to need a few definitions of the different bot groups and their members.

1. Bali group:

- v2the3 on PS , vtwothe3 on party , v2the3 on 888, vtothe3/v2the3 on WPN
- the1rake1 on PS , fishenzone1 on party, the2rake2 on 888, 1rake1/kiluifuplay on WPN
- mavricckk on PS , mavvrickkk on party, mavricckk on 888, your_mum on WPN
- majcy on PS, majcyy on party, majcyyy on 888, majcy on wpn

2. Canadians

- PrimordialAA on PS, LePetitCapra on party, AshFrmPokemn on 888, AshFrmPokemn on WPN
- Helio_TYF on PS , birdpersonC87 on party, mrpoopyp4nts on 888, Another1 on WPN
- IKSecret on PS , IKSecret on 888, XieXie on party, Another_One on WPN ( initially with Canadians group, left at some point )

3. Jhub group

- Jhub on PS, Jhub3OOO on 888, anothonyff on WPN
- spacegravy on PS, RichFish1954 on 888, Rspacegravy on party, OLD TIME GIN on WPN
- voss1313 on PS, DoGood1313 on 888, LetItMove on party , killuifuplay on WPN
- spiritedreal on PS, 2piritedreal on 888, jojatekos1 on party, tiyrgul on WPN

( 100-300 horses on 888: Redskins53, Goinindry, I AM MASHINE )

4. Germans

- currrrrr on PS, soiidogz on 888
- torg0th on PS
- maltesukt on PS, Jessica_1998 on party, JustSpoon on 888, Kaitlyn on WPN
- at0mfred on PS , Waduhek on party, Atomfred on 888, Atomfred/At0mfred on WPN
- Ziroto on PS , Bomschikiwauwau on party, Shalalalaaaa on 888, Bomschikiwauwau on WPN
- Don Bjorn on PS , wuffl84 on pary, KaffeeJurgen on 888, Coffeejuergen on WPN

Lower stakes horses for the Germans - SheldonC0per , Optimus23P

List of current active bot players

PS: spacegravy, voss1313, spiritedreal
888: 2piritedreal , soiidogz, JustSpoon, Atomfred, SHalalalaaa, KaffeeJurgen, AshFrmPokemn? , mrpoopyp4nts?, IKSecret ( can't be sure how much of these and the others are banned/not banned )
Party: XieXie, jojatekos1, LetItMove

Recently, another banned bot on stars - madonken13 ( part of an another german bot group) became active on the euros
party - obvnuts_

Even though the provider of the info in the video is indeed currrr, who was part of my team, this whole thread is thanks to these 4 bot groups, who were removed from hu hypers after a war you can read about below.

Here the story begins. As early as 2016, the euro lobbies were held almost exclusively by bots. I decided to try and beat their bots and get to opensit hu hyper lobbies. Few words about bot vs bot play - currently no bot is "100% gto" , which allows for edges between different bots. It is a common misconseption, that bot vs bot is 0 edge. As a matter of fact, a lot of skill, expertise and time is required in order to be better than the others, just like in any other endeavour. So you can have an edge, but edges are extremely small.

My first shot against the bots in euros was from september 2016 to february 2017, when I battled on stakes 200-500 against various bot groups. I played around 25k hu sngs with no success, while using a bot. I had around 0 chipev for that sample.

After this failed attempt, now being familiar with the oppositions and having done some upgrades, mid 2017 I went to war straight on 1ks vs another bot group.I managed to come out ahead in about 10k games with 2chipev advantage.
This seems like a super low number, and yes, you are losing money pre and post rakeback, but the other group is losing much more than you and this is what matters. So after this war I managed to get in and lobbies were held by my group and also Bali, the Canadians and Jhubs.

Things were calm for a while between the 4 groups in 1k, but when there are so many different parties with different interests, often there are arguments and if those arguments can't be settled - another bot vs bot war might start. Meanwhile Glenn Thompson, torg0th and another guy had expressed interest by themselves to join the team, and since a start of a war was brewing, there was need for more people, so they joined. Plan was for these 3 guys to battle with another group against Bali. At this point Bali announced that, they are together with Jhubs and Canadians as one big group, and that they would be fighting together.
It became clear, that this has been the case for quite a while. Anyway, after very few battle games, this war was ended, by Glenn and Torg0th saying they dont want to battle and the other group giving up as well. It was all very weird
how things fell apart.

After that Glenn and torg0th started having "problems" and complaints with the team, they didn't want to cooperate and it was clear they wanted to leave, so they did. Around March 2018, a new team ( the Germans )
showed up to battle us, Bali, Canadians and Jhub group, up to 300 stakes first and then up to 1k. It was the german players, who had share in the 100s division until now and they wanted to move up. Soon it became clear that it was led by Glenn himself and he was the software provider. I have very strong reason to believe that the sole reason he joined my team was to gather intel about everything, so he can later create his own bot and his own team ( and gather all this evidence agaisnt me), he never intended to stay. Anyway, In about a month or two, the germans' results weren't good vs us ( they were losing again at around 2cev/game ) , so they concentrated their attack on groups Bali, Canadians and Jhub. This war between them went on for a few months until July 2018, while finally they came to an agreement and they ended the war ( we think this agreement involved other rooms and formats ). The german group got spots up to 500.

Things were again fairly quiet for a while, until November 2018. A war started between us on the one side and Bali, Canadians, Jhubs and the germans on the other. This went on for about 6 months, it was an extremely tough war, because they had several times more manpower and financial power behind them. So finally , March 2019 they wrote us offering to split timeshares to 12 hour zones, which was pretty funny, since it was obvious they were losing the war. After we declined their kind offer, they played a few days more and then disappeared. From that point onward, until now, yes,it was one of those 5 reported accounts that held 888 lobbies, not because they came and destroyed the poor fair-playing humans, but because they beat the already existing bots at their own game, one team vs all other 4 teams combined.

Look, I am no saint, but let me give you some more food for thought. When I started doing this, situation was already 99% bots in the euro sites. My sin is that I created a better bot and managed to remove every other bot on the euro hyper hu sngs, something no one thought was ever possible, because people thought bot vs bot is 0 edge. I just seized an opportunit and I dont feel that removing bots is scamming people. Detecting bots has been very difficult task for the rooms, since it requires a team of competent people who are familiar with a lot of aspects of the game. On top of that for the majority of the time most rooms didnt had a point in their t&c that was forbiding the use of advisers. Technicaly that isnt botting, even tho I have used the term in this post, because it makes it more easy to understand.

One can only assume, with Bali Jhubs and Canadians being friends, if they continued to hold lobbies, how long this would have went on.

One final point, because there was discussion about how damaging this is to the poker economy and to the player pool compared to other formats. Yes, it is damaging, but this is HU and you can see who is sitting in it. You choose yourself to sit and play these games or not to ( and let me just stress again that any kind of assistance is not needed vs recreationals/other format regs ). However, cheaters in other formats are much more damaging to honest players, because if your main game is for example 6max or spins, then you will have to play vs cheaters whether you like it or not.

With this being said, you're probably wondering if there is anything of this nature in other formats. As far as I know, Bali and the Germans are holding the HU cash lobbies ( possibly playing 6-9max too ) in the chinese apps - Pokermaster, PPPoker and Firepoker. Germans hold HU turbo sngs around euro sites. They were playing spins on Pokerstars and Party ( not sure if its still going on or in other rooms ). Glenn Thompson additionally ( when he was attacking us with his team ) shared, that he has a PLO adviser in the works. They are massive teams with huge amount of financial power behind them, that tried to infest with bots any possible poker format, that could be infested.

This is all from me for now, below you will find a link with what should be all the needed proof about all the accusations I have made. If I have missed something or you would like additional proof about a specific point, please let me know. There is a ton of materials and it's hard and time-consuming to go through it all.


All that should be needed is these two videos. The first video "Group chat" is from March 2018, when a war between my group vs Bali, Jhub and Canadians almost started. Germans had not yet joined the party. The second video "new rules" is from November 2018, when the final war happened against us and the other 4 groups. Both videos start by showing the members in the group chat, along with their skype usernames. It can be confirmed, that behind those skype usernames stand the people we listed, since most of those skype users are high-profile poker players, that use these skypes on a regular basis. In the videos you will see conversations between me and them , where they say stuff like "you're lucky to have what you have", "we have 10 people in 1k ready to boot you" etc. Well, if you are a legit human player, you need some massive balls to talk to the biggest bot on the euros like this, let me tell you that.

Last edited by xrab; 11-17-2019 at 07:12 PM.
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