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Old 06-14-2017, 10:40 AM   #201
patstap2
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Re: **WSOP FANTASY LEAGUE 2017 - SWEAT THREAD**

Quote:
Originally Posted by xander biscuits View Post
it's a tag team event. The entry fee and the prize money are split 4 ways and so are the points.

It's better to think of it as 3rd place in a 2.5k
Quote:
Originally Posted by FerencL View Post
I'm sorry, but no it's not.
3rd place in event #2 paid 106.12 points. PERIOD.
If something is accomplished by 1 person or by a team of 100 people is totally irrelevant: IT'S THE SAME ACCOMPLISHMENT! They both have the same value.
For POY, the entry fee is not split. The payout is not split. The full 106.12 points were paid out to Team Negreanu.
The fact that Daniel invited 3 others to share the points with him was totally his decision to make. He did it for his 25kfantasy draft which has a different scoring system.
The only gripe Daniel can have is that the scoring system for POY tag team events was kept a secret from the players. However, the way it was done turns out to be totally logical.

A couple more hypothetical ways of looking at it.

Player "A" enters four $10k tag team events and finishes 3rd, earning $29,939, each time. Total profit $109,756. Earns 26 POY points in each event for 104 total points.

Player "B" enters four $2500 Mixed Triple Draw Lowball events and gets one 3rd place finish for $52,761 and three bustouts for $0. Earns 101.7 total POY points.

I contend player "A", by far, had the better series but would have just barely won the POY by a score of 104 to 101.7

Another hypothetical:

Player "A" plays the $10k tag team, gets 3rd place for a profit of $27,439.

Player "B" plays the $365 Colossus, gets 2402nd place for a profit of $467.

Who had the better series? I would say player "A" but in fact he would have lost the POY to player "B" by the score of 26 to 32.7.

Hardly logical.

Last edited by patstap2; 06-14-2017 at 10:47 AM.
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Old 06-14-2017, 10:49 AM   #202
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Re: **WSOP FANTASY LEAGUE 2017 - SWEAT THREAD**

10k Tag Team had 102 teams

10k Dealers Choice has 102 entrants.

3rd place paid 105.5 points.

http://www.wsop.com/tournaments/resu...1352&tid=15617

/discussion
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Old 06-14-2017, 10:51 AM   #203
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Re: **WSOP FANTASY LEAGUE 2017 - SWEAT THREAD**

Quote:
Originally Posted by patstap2 View Post
Another hypothetical:

Player "A" plays the $10k tag team, gets 3rd place for a profit of $27,439.

Player "B" plays the $365 Colossus, gets 2402nd place for a profit of $467.

Who had the better series? I would say player "A" but in fact he would have lost the POY to player "B" by the score of 26 to 32.7.

Hardly logical.
Player A could have also played a grand total of 9 hands and let his better teammate do the rest of the work.
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Old 06-14-2017, 11:18 AM   #204
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Re: **WSOP FANTASY LEAGUE 2017 - SWEAT THREAD**

Quote:
Originally Posted by FerencL View Post
I'm sorry, but no it's not.
3rd place in event #2 paid 106.12 points. PERIOD.
If something is accomplished by 1 person or by a team of 100 people is totally irrelevant: IT'S THE SAME ACCOMPLISHMENT! They both have the same value.
For POY, the entry fee is not split. The payout is not split. The full 106.12 points were paid out to Team Negreanu.
The fact that Daniel invited 3 others to share the points with him was totally his decision to make. He did it for his 25kfantasy draft which has a different scoring system.
The only gripe Daniel can have is that the scoring system for POY tag team events was kept a secret from the players. However, the way it was done turns out to be totally logical.
I understand your saying the points should be split between team members but I guess I disagree with their method of awarding points.

Using the WSOP POY calculator, a $10,000 event that pays $119,756 would generate 106.12 points as you correctly point out.

But, in fact, I think a more equitable way of calculating the points would be to use an entry fee of $2500 (what each team member paid) and a prize of $29,939 (what each team members received).

Using these numbers would result in 84.24 POY points which I think more accurately reflects the value of the accomplishment they achieved.
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Old 06-14-2017, 11:37 AM   #205
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Re: **WSOP FANTASY LEAGUE 2017 - SWEAT THREAD**

Quote:
Originally Posted by that_pope View Post
Player A could have also played a grand total of 9 hands and let his better teammate do the rest of the work.
A valid point. Something inherently unfair about each team member receiving the same number of points regardless of how many hands played, not to mention how astutely they were played. Gonna take someone smarter than me to fix that inequity.

But still, I'll amend my hypothetical and you tell me who had the better series.

Player "A1" is one of four team members to play the $10k tag team, gets 3rd place for a profit of $27,439.

Player "A2" is one of four team members to play the $10k tag team, gets 3rd place for a profit of $27,439.

Player "A3" is one of four team members to play the $10k tag team, gets 3rd place for a profit of $27,439.

Player "A4" is one of four team members to play the $10k tag team, gets 3rd place for a profit of $27,439.

Player "B" plays the $365 Colossus, gets 2402nd place for a profit of $467.

Final POY scores:

Player "B" 32.7
Player "A1" 26 (played one round of blinds)
Player "A2" 26 (played one round of blinds)
Player "A3" 26 (played one round of blinds)
Player "A4" 26 (played all the other hands)

Who had the better series?
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Old 06-14-2017, 12:31 PM   #206
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Re: **WSOP FANTASY LEAGUE 2017 - SWEAT THREAD**

All I know is I'm 27th in points and it's blowing my mind.
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Old 06-14-2017, 12:39 PM   #207
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Re: **WSOP FANTASY LEAGUE 2017 - SWEAT THREAD**

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Originally Posted by TheDarkKnight View Post
All I know is I'm 27th in points and it's blowing my mind.
Lol. A pleased blowing or a disappointed blowing?
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Old 06-14-2017, 01:02 PM   #208
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Re: **WSOP FANTASY LEAGUE 2017 - SWEAT THREAD**

Quote:
Originally Posted by that_pope View Post
10k Tag Team had 102 teams

10k Dealers Choice has 102 entrants.


http://www.wsop.com/tournaments/resu...1352&tid=15617
I'm a little off the subject, but why are these prizepools different? Same buy-in, same number of entrants, same 4.2% and 1.8% withheld but they show a prizepool of 958,800 in the tag team and $930,600 in the dealer's choice.

What am I missing?
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Old 06-14-2017, 02:11 PM   #209
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Re: **WSOP FANTASY LEAGUE 2017 - SWEAT THREAD**

Not sure why I am doing all this math and analysis for you which is irrelevant to the fantasy league but if you sum up the total prizes awarded in Dealer's Choice, it sums to $958,800, exact amount as Tag Team. Just a manual error at wsop.com. They don't have someone good with numbers like myself over there checking everything they do.

$273,962
$169,323
$117,786
$83,263
$59,827
$43,707
$32,474
$32,474
$24,546
$24,546
$18,880
$18,880
$14,783
$14,783
$14,783
$14,783
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Old 06-14-2017, 02:54 PM   #210
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Re: **WSOP FANTASY LEAGUE 2017 - SWEAT THREAD**

Quote:
Originally Posted by that_pope View Post
10k Tag Team had 102 teams

10k Dealers Choice has 102 entrants.

3rd place paid 105.5 points.

http://www.wsop.com/tournaments/resu...1352&tid=15617

/discussion
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Old 06-14-2017, 03:30 PM   #211
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Re: **WSOP FANTASY LEAGUE 2017 - SWEAT THREAD**

Quote:
Originally Posted by that_pope View Post
10k Tag Team had 102 teams

10k Dealers Choice has 102 entrants.

3rd place paid 105.5 points.

http://www.wsop.com/tournaments/resu...1352&tid=15617

/discussion
My assumption is that you are pointing out that since these two tournaments are identical, they should have awarded identical points for 3rd place?
But, they are identical! I pointed out back on the 8th that the King's Casino calculator numbers do not agree with the WSOP.com numbers. For these two tournaments we are using WSOP.com for one and King's Casino calculator for the other. That's why they look different.
This is a matter for xander biscuits (as head of the Rules Committee):
The WSOP.com points are not official.
The King's Casino calculator points are not official.
King's Casino says they will not release the official numbers until the end of the series (which could mean until the end of WSOPE).
So, for our pool, which numbers are official for us? Xander?
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Old 06-14-2017, 03:56 PM   #212
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Re: **WSOP FANTASY LEAGUE 2017 - SWEAT THREAD**

I don't think John Monnette's points are being counted. We have him as John Edward Monnette and on WSOP it's John Monnette. I'm missing some other points as well, my guess is Terrence Chan and Aston Griffin but I'm not at all sure.

And no need to thank me for this extra work.
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Old 06-14-2017, 04:05 PM   #213
patstap2
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Re: **WSOP FANTASY LEAGUE 2017 - SWEAT THREAD**

Quote:
Originally Posted by FerencL View Post
My assumption is that you are pointing out that since these two tournaments are identical, they should have awarded identical points for 3rd place?
But, they are identical! I pointed out back on the 8th that the King's Casino calculator numbers do not agree with the WSOP.com numbers. For these two tournaments we are using WSOP.com for one and King's Casino calculator for the other. That's why they look different.
This is a matter for xander biscuits (as head of the Rules Committee):
The WSOP.com points are not official.
The King's Casino calculator points are not official.
King's Casino says they will not release the official numbers until the end of the series (which could mean until the end of WSOPE).
So, for our pool, which numbers are official for us? Xander?
No, I was pointing out the discrepancy of the total prizepools as shown at WSOP.com, not the POY points.

I saw that 105.5 POY points was being used for both.

Had I taken the time to add the prizes awarded, as thatpope did, I could've answered my own question.
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Old 06-14-2017, 04:05 PM   #214
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Re: **WSOP FANTASY LEAGUE 2017 - SWEAT THREAD**

Quote:
Originally Posted by FerencL View Post
My assumption is that you are pointing out that since these two tournaments are identical, they should have awarded identical points for 3rd place?
But, they are identical! I pointed out back on the 8th that the King's Casino calculator numbers do not agree with the WSOP.com numbers. For these two tournaments we are using WSOP.com for one and King's Casino calculator for the other. That's why they look different.
This is a matter for xander biscuits (as head of the Rules Committee):
The WSOP.com points are not official.
The King's Casino calculator points are not official.
King's Casino says they will not release the official numbers until the end of the series (which could mean until the end of WSOPE).
So, for our pool, which numbers are official for us? Xander?
No, I was not nitpicking the difference. I was saying the points are good because patstap was saying they seemed too low. They are basically identical, which is sufficient for me.
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Old 06-14-2017, 04:26 PM   #215
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Re: **WSOP FANTASY LEAGUE 2017 - SWEAT THREAD**

Quote:
Originally Posted by FerencL View Post
My assumption is that you are pointing out that since these two tournaments are identical, they should have awarded identical points for 3rd place?
But, they are identical! I pointed out back on the 8th that the King's Casino calculator numbers do not agree with the WSOP.com numbers. For these two tournaments we are using WSOP.com for one and King's Casino calculator for the other. That's why they look different.
This is a matter for xander biscuits (as head of the Rules Committee):
The WSOP.com points are not official.
The King's Casino calculator points are not official.
King's Casino says they will not release the official numbers until the end of the series (which could mean until the end of WSOPE).
So, for our pool, which numbers are official for us? Xander?
As per the rules, whatever the WSOP decides to award for the POY is what we award.

I'd like to think that the WSOP.com points are correct and that the "not official until after the World Series" thing is just them covering themselves. But if people genuinely believe that the points will change in the "official" release then we wait for this. I'd rather wait than either pay out the wrong person or leave people thinking that this wasn't done fairly.

Can you confirm that the tag team points were calculated by subtracting what we know he got from other events from his POY total?
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Old 06-14-2017, 06:14 PM   #216
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Re: **WSOP FANTASY LEAGUE 2017 - SWEAT THREAD**

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Originally Posted by patstap2 View Post
Lol. A pleased blowing or a disappointed blowing?
Pleased. I mean I know my results so far but I'm still shocked to see myself on that list. 380 days ago I had zero WSOP cashes to my name.

Surreal is a good word to describe it.
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Old 06-14-2017, 07:12 PM   #217
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Re: **WSOP FANTASY LEAGUE 2017 - SWEAT THREAD**

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Originally Posted by TheDarkKnight View Post
All I know is I'm 27th in points and it's blowing my mind.
WTG!
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Old 06-14-2017, 08:41 PM   #218
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Re: **WSOP FANTASY LEAGUE 2017 - SWEAT THREAD**

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDarkKnight View Post
Pleased. I mean I know my results so far but I'm still shocked to see myself on that list. 380 days ago I had zero WSOP cashes to my name.

Surreal is a good word to describe it.
Very cool. You had a helluva final table at the HORSE event, too.

Best yet, I'm guessing you were a unique pick to your team.
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Old 06-14-2017, 08:50 PM   #219
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Re: **WSOP FANTASY LEAGUE 2017 - SWEAT THREAD**

I'm thinking next year I'm going to draft DID NOT REPORT. They always seem to have a good series.
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Old 06-14-2017, 08:57 PM   #220
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Re: **WSOP FANTASY LEAGUE 2017 - SWEAT THREAD**

Maybe you guys will smarten up next year!

Alas, there's some chance I might not play another event. Playing downtown next ten days. Was originally going to fly back on the 24th, but might stay now. Also, I have a full backing offer for the Main.

Not a huge fan of NL. I'm okay but not even close to a wizard.
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Old 06-14-2017, 09:31 PM   #221
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Re: **WSOP FANTASY LEAGUE 2017 - SWEAT THREAD**

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDarkKnight View Post
Maybe you guys will smarten up next year!

Alas, there's some chance I might not play another event. Playing downtown next ten days. Was originally going to fly back on the 24th, but might stay now. Also, I have a full backing offer for the Main.

Not a huge fan of NL. I'm okay but not even close to a wizard.
Just do it
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Old 06-14-2017, 09:49 PM   #222
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Re: **WSOP FANTASY LEAGUE 2017 - SWEAT THREAD**

LFG Zhigalov Chip leading in the 10k Razz! And also Maslak
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Old 06-14-2017, 11:22 PM   #223
FerencL
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Re: **WSOP FANTASY LEAGUE 2017 - SWEAT THREAD**

Quote:
Originally Posted by ByeByeJoe View Post
I don't think John Monnette's points are being counted. We have him as John Edward Monnette and on WSOP it's John Monnette. I'm missing some other points as well, my guess is Terrence Chan and Aston Griffin but I'm not at all sure.

And no need to thank me for this extra work.
John Monnette (WSOP) = John Edward Monnette (GPI). Corrected.
After checking out Terrence Chan I see that Terrence Chan's points have been awarded. There was no spelling difference. Please do not put any names forward for correction unless there is a spelling difference or you can explain what the problem is. So far, the only problem we have found with the data is spelling differences of names between GPI and WSOP.
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Old 06-14-2017, 11:34 PM   #224
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Re: **WSOP FANTASY LEAGUE 2017 - SWEAT THREAD**

Quote:
Originally Posted by xander biscuits View Post
As per the rules, whatever the WSOP decides to award for the POY is what we award.

I'd like to think that the WSOP.com points are correct and that the "not official until after the World Series" thing is just them covering themselves. But if people genuinely believe that the points will change in the "official" release then we wait for this. I'd rather wait than either pay out the wrong person or leave people thinking that this wasn't done fairly.

Can you confirm that the tag team points were calculated by subtracting what we know he got from other events from his POY total?
The problem with waiting for the official POY points is that if they do not release that information until after WSOPE then the data will be corrupted with WSOPE results and there will be no official results for WSOP Las Vegas only.
No, we cannot use that system (for tag team points) because all tag team cashers are not in the Top 100. Instead, I had to verify how the points were rewarded (using the infamous Daniel Negreanu example) and then use the same process to calculate everybody's points. Of course, so far, I've only done event #2. Anyone want to volunteer to do event #10? I did check with KevMath to see if the WSOP would give them to us. No reply beyond "are you using the calculator?". What I take this to mean is: we don't have any numbers so use the calculator. It appears that King's Casino is keeping these numbers to themselves and even the WSOP doesn't know what the official POY points are.
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Old 06-14-2017, 11:39 PM   #225
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Re: **WSOP FANTASY LEAGUE 2017 - SWEAT THREAD**

Quote:
Originally Posted by FerencL View Post
John Monnette (WSOP) = John Edward Monnette (GPI). Corrected.
After checking out Terrence Chan I see that Terrence Chan's points have been awarded. There was no spelling difference. Please do not put any names forward for correction unless there is a spelling difference or you can explain what the problem is. So far, the only problem we have found with the data is spelling differences of names between GPI and WSOP.
Thanks
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