Now he's getting Devilfish to back him up on something he is denying. Bizarre.

http://twitter.com/devilfish2011/sta...95472276762624

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/97...atever-474777/

You're welcome

Link doesn't work.

01:11:00

MJ......"Ray's gross mismanagement"

is 'gross mismanagement' Canadian for 'thievery'?

It tilts me everytime I hear the word 'intelligent' used about a group of con men and thieves. Adam used it early on in the PC then Bryan Horton (who seems to be the real star of the roundtable) even uses it.

'this was a group of smart guys', 'Howard is an intelligent man', 'Andy Bloch has 2 degrees from MIT and a law degree from Harvard'

grrrrrrrrl

What does 'intelligence' have anything to do with anything? Does it give you an excuse for arrogance or ignorance or criminal behaviour?

I want to know how come a $100 depositer in Cedar Rapids cant get a $250 payout but Durrr, or Ivey, or Gus can seemingly pull a couple hundred K anytime they need it. Were they all set up with foreign bank accts? Seems likely, but Id like to hear Uncle Howie tell it to the camera

I want to know why (touched on in the episode) when BF hit, and the balance was short $150mm, Mr (40%) Ferguson didnt immediately shoot them $60mm from his collected disbursements, and why Mr (30%) Lederer didnt do the same to the tune of $45mm, and Mr (25%) Lobster Cart didnt kick in his $42.5mm.

Has anyone ever asked the question straight up: 'seizures were happening repeatedly pre-BF, a company with a team of expensive lawyers like FTP had to know BF was coming. THEY HAD TO KNOW. It was just a matter of date and time. Isn't it likely Ray cleaned out the operating accts? Pretty much anything he could get his hands on, in anticipation of the certainty that it would be seized as well? And when he did clean them out, what did he do with the $$? Did he disburse it to the partners?'

Has anyone checked under the Blarney Stone for a hole with $150mm cash in it!!!?????

Intelligent....pffftt crooks pure and simple
Mismanagement....pffftt crooks pure and simple

(no longer tilted ty)

Thank you for analysing these interviews. I gotta say i didnt pick up on almost any of the stuff you did which makes me sad about being dumb but also i think a lot of ppl will sort of believe howard or at least not question the stuff he says enough

He certainly has some deniability in all this. We'll never know if he was pretty involved in the bad decisions making or if he was pretty much just sitting back and collecting money.

I totally get why Matt is writing for Weeds. You gotta, like, know what you`re writing about, you know?

Nice ep guys, well done...

I know nothing, I see nothing....

HE WAS ON THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS OVERSEEING THE COMPANY FOR THE BENEFIT OF SHAREHOLDERS AND CUSTOMERS.

Howard was the corporate face of FTP. Howard was on the cover of BLUFF magazine in Feb 2011 as 'the most powerful person in poker'.

You don't get the option of deniability, you only get the option of responsibility

As board members for a company that was entrusted with over $300m of other peoples money, Chris and Howard are absolutely responsible to shareholders and customers for the actions of their CEO.

1) they hired him when they knew he was underqualified for the job
2) they kept him on when the company grew beyond what Ray was obviously capable of handing
3) they ignored multiple complaints from managers, employees and other shareholders regarding Ray's capabilities of running the company, shrugging them off as 'Ray haters'
4) they didn't take any action after they became aware of his gross mismanagement harming players and shareholders alike.

An online poker company is unique in that it doesn't just have the well-being of their shareholders to mind, but also their customers $$ as well. As such, the NECESSITY for an experienced, competent, honest and moral executive at the helm is paramount. It is truly the most important decision you have as a board. One task....have the right person driving the ship!!! They chose their buddy instead and deserve to go down with the ship that he sank.

Further
5) they ignored e-mails and messages from players regarding growing financial concerns surrounding the company
6) they ignored massive red flags such as DOJ seizures and payment processor theft
7) they were completely negligent in regularly ensuring the finances of the company were solvent

Nice sum up of the situation, MJ.

So we're back to the original question : are they idiots or crooks (or somewhere in between)?

I wish you would have ended the segment with that.

Not mutually exclusively, as the show "World's Dumbest Criminals" documents.

Two notes:

1) Howard is technically right about at least one thing: California LLCs have "members": "A limited liability company shall have one or more members."

2) I agree with Adam that Gardena was much more influential for the rise of the California poker scene than The Bike. Not that I'm old enough to have witnessed the old lowball days, but I'm pretty sure (don't have access to my copy right now) SuperSystem I specifically refers to the Gardena games in its lowball section.

This is true. Had family that played there back in the day, and it was THE spot to play.

My friend owned a successful business, then got sick-he had to turn over daily operations to his #2, and they were soon losing money.

He asked me to take a look at things, then asked, 'is he stealing? Or just an idiot?'

My response, 'what's the difference?'

This may be a silly question, and apologies if it's already been answered elsewhere, but...

...why was Bitar arrested, but not Lederer? Clearly Lederer is sitting in Vegas right now (as was evident from the interview), and not hiding in Ireland as Bitar was.

Did only Bitar (and not Lederer) have a warrant for his arrest? If so, why? What's the difference between the charges levied on Bitar vs. Lederer?

(Again, please forgive me if this is a silly question, but I honestly have no clue!)

da law operates in mysterious ways.......mwah ah ha

They've got a cell already reserved for Uncle Howie...they just want to squeeze all his earthly (stolen) possessions out of him first, while dangling the possibility of no jail time.

One day The Professor Of Poker will find himself The Professor of Oz with his own Vern Schillinger and a very new definition of No Limit Hold Em.

LOL Daniel's response to The Lederer Files and the NVG thread on it (with a special guest appearance from Mason) He has indeed lost it..it MUST be too much Rogain.

Played with Matt in a small tournament in LA a few weeks ago. Really nice guy and somewhat surreal to see him win a major tournament a few weeks later. Congrats Matt.

Whoops. I'd been listening to the episode in small chunks, and just got to the point in the interview when Mike asked NoahSD why criminal charges hadn't been placed against Lederer, and even NoahSD said "I don't know."

Guess I'm not the only person mystified by this question!

The most disturbing part is how group of owners who took $450 million in dispersements were also able to take loans from the company and in some cases such as Eric Lingren actually steal money from the company.

The roundtable was a bit difficult to listen to due to people talking over each other.

Was delaying a few hours to allow yourselves to have watched the Lederer interview in full before recording a viable option at all?

It felt strange listening to you guys discuss it having only seen 1/3 of what i'd seen. Kind of like doing a book review having only read the first few chapters.

Having said that, can't wait for the show this week which i'm certain will more than compensate.

No. the segments were released over 4 days. We would have had to postpone the show until Sunday to watch all 7 parts.

Whats the ETA for this weeks episode?