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Old 02-08-2012, 12:44 PM   #1
Bunner
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PokerCast Episode 208 - Nick Jones & Two Plus Two Player Summit

Live from the Two Plus Two Studios, February 7th 2012 - Nick Jones & Two Plus Two Player Summit This week on the Two Plus Two PokerCast Mike and Adam get things started by covering the latest breaking news in the ongoing Full Tilt Poker saga involving over $16 million in loans to Team Full Tilt members. The guys then connect with PokerFuse.com editor and co-founder Nick Jones to get the inside story on the Two Plus Two player summit that recently took place at PokerStars headquarters. The summit was focused on discussing the rake changes made by the online poker giant which has caused much controversy in the poker community. In forum static Mike and Adam recap their SuperBowl weekend, cover some general poker gossip and of course give away the password for the February 12th Poker Stars VIP Club Invitational for PokerCast listeners.


PokerCast Theme - Demitone Productions Inc. 2007 : Runaway Imperial Teen - Feel the Sound 2012 : Funny Girl Pacific UV - Weekends 2012 : Friends of Friends Hospitality - Hospitality 2012 :
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Old 02-08-2012, 12:44 PM   #2
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Re: PokerCast Episode 208 - Nick Jones & Two Plus Two Player Summit

frist

DL: http://pokercast.s3.amazonaws.com/twoplustwo_208.mp3

Last edited by jefkve; 02-08-2012 at 12:45 PM. Reason: Thats right, I'm #1 =)
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Old 02-08-2012, 12:45 PM   #3
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Re: PokerCast Episode 208 - Nick Jones & Two Plus Two Player Summit

2nd, oh yeah!
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Old 02-08-2012, 12:48 PM   #4
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Re: PokerCast Episode 208 - Nick Jones & Two Plus Two Player Summit

please stop with the I'm first posts, it's childish and silly

Last edited by AdamSchwartz; 02-08-2012 at 12:48 PM. Reason: 3rd
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Old 02-08-2012, 12:53 PM   #5
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Re: PokerCast Episode 208 - Nick Jones & Two Plus Two Player Summit

... cannot resist ... 4 t h
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Old 02-08-2012, 12:56 PM   #6
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Re: PokerCast Episode 208 - Nick Jones & Two Plus Two Player Summit

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Originally Posted by AdamSchwartz View Post
please stop with the I'm first posts, it's childish and silly
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Old 02-08-2012, 01:02 PM   #7
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Re: PokerCast Episode 208 - Nick Jones & Two Plus Two Player Summit

fifth for the fifth week running it seems
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Old 02-08-2012, 01:13 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamSchwartz View Post
please stop with the I'm first posts, it's childish and silly
Does this count as third?
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Old 02-08-2012, 01:15 PM   #9
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Re: PokerCast Episode 208 - Nick Jones & Two Plus Two Player Summit

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Does this count as third?
Does this count at 7th?
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Old 02-08-2012, 01:29 PM   #10
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Re: PokerCast Episode 208 - Nick Jones & Two Plus Two Player Summit

I be 6 and you be 9 female only please. Couple of million for other sick things.
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Old 02-08-2012, 02:01 PM   #11
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Re: PokerCast Episode 208 - Nick Jones & Two Plus Two Player Summit

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Old 02-08-2012, 03:23 PM   #12
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Re: PokerCast Episode 208 - Nick Jones & Two Plus Two Player Summit

Here is a repost of the data discussed on the PokerCast:
Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerStars Steve View Post
We've reviewed a substantial selection of hands played over the site over a four week period in January, randomly chosen based on hand ID #. We've compared the rake that was taken using the old rake structure with the rake that would have been taken under the new rake structure.

The resulting numbers are similar to those posted based on the November/December data. The one significant difference is for PLO. The difference is entirely due to increased play at $50/$100 PLO due to Isildur1 being active in January but not in November or the first half of December. The increased rake at that stakes weighed in more heavily due to the increased number of hands played, altering the final rake change for PLO.

Unlike previous posts, this data separates HU/6max/9max.







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Old 02-08-2012, 06:19 PM   #13
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Re: PokerCast Episode 208 - Nick Jones & Two Plus Two Player Summit

I made it.
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Old 02-08-2012, 06:46 PM   #14
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Re: PokerCast Episode 208 - Nick Jones & Two Plus Two Player Summit

how could anyone looking at that table not think its completely transparentand easily comparable with other sites

Quote:
Pokerstars Steve in Zoo thread...I encourage you and others to make rake comparisons using data from February 5th and later, after the new rake was implemented AND milestone hands were over. Compare to January 2011, or July or October if you prefer a time period after the changes of late Spring and early Summer last year. August and September were mildly affected by the promotion that made monthly VIP levels easier to attain......
and 14th
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Old 02-08-2012, 07:19 PM   #15
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Great show as always!
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Old 02-08-2012, 07:34 PM   #16
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Re: PokerCast Episode 208 - Nick Jones & Two Plus Two Player Summit

Isn't the swing always 800k and not 1million? If he bubbles, he loses 250k. If he does not bubble, he wins 550k (250 he paid + 550 profit). 550 - (-250) = 800. This is different from a prop bet, where both parties put up an amount and there really is that big swing.

Edit: Mike, you're not boycotting Venetian?

Last edited by bellatrix; 02-08-2012 at 07:50 PM.
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Old 02-08-2012, 08:10 PM   #17
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Re: PokerCast Episode 208 - Nick Jones & Two Plus Two Player Summit

Quote:
Originally Posted by bellatrix View Post
Edit: Mike, you're not boycotting Venetian?
Nah, my beef isn't the $10 staff appreciation add-on. It's how it's collected and accounted for. When I reg'd for the $300, the ticket clearly stated $300 + $45 + $10 on the reciept and it was all collected at the time of registration.

They gave me proper accounting and the appropriate time to decide if I wanted to register for the event or not. That's a far cry from forking over a $20 bills going into who knows who's pocket minutes before the event starts so I can start with the same number of chips as every else.
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Old 02-08-2012, 09:28 PM   #18
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Re: PokerCast Episode 208 - Nick Jones & Two Plus Two Player Summit

Quote:
Originally Posted by bellatrix View Post
Edit: Mike, you're not boycotting Venetian?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Johnson View Post
Nah, my beef isn't the $10 staff appreciation add-on. It's how it's collected and accounted for. When I reg'd for the $300, the ticket clearly stated $300 + $45 + $10 on the reciept and it was all collected at the time of registration.

They gave me proper accounting and the appropriate time to decide if I wanted to register for the event or not. That's a far cry from forking over a $20 bills going into who knows who's pocket minutes before the event starts so I can start with the same number of chips as every else.
I assumed the question about boycotting Venetian had to do with Sheldon Adelson opposing legalized online poker, not a staff appreciation add-on.
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Old 02-09-2012, 12:14 AM   #19
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Re: PokerCast Episode 208 - Nick Jones & Two Plus Two Player Summit

lol'd at freudian slip 53:10
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Old 02-09-2012, 12:33 AM   #20
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Re: PokerCast Episode 208 - Nick Jones & Two Plus Two Player Summit

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Originally Posted by tripsONacid View Post
lol'd at freudian slip 53:10
Spoiler:
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Old 02-09-2012, 09:32 AM   #21
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Re: PokerCast Episode 208 - Nick Jones & Two Plus Two Player Summit

Maybe I missed it, but did Mike/Adam ask either Nick or Steve about why the rake is ridiculously high at PLO25 to PLO100?
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Old 02-09-2012, 10:26 AM   #22
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Re: PokerCast Episode 208 - Nick Jones & Two Plus Two Player Summit

Awesome show as always guys. Appreciate your analysis and thoughts on markers and money owed to FT/GBT at the beginning.
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Old 02-09-2012, 05:15 PM   #23
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Re: PokerCast Episode 208 - Nick Jones & Two Plus Two Player Summit

Mike: Your rant re GBT and the FTP player loans was offside, imo.

In an asset purchase M&A transaction, it is 100% standard for the buyer to assume collection of receivables, promissory notes and other non-cash assets such as player loans. Typically, such assets are valued at a discount based on good faith estimates of collectability. Very often, there will be a negotiated post-closing adjustment based on the actual collections experience. These matters are always addressed in the detailed terms and conditions of a deal prior to closing.

In this case, GBT seems to be attempting to assess the value of the FTP player loans in a pre-closing due diligence exercise. It would be reckless for GBT to accept FTP's estimate without some independent process, and it is likely that FTP agreed to allow GBT to contact specific FTP player-debtors about their debts owed to FTP.

Whether or not GBT violated any non-disclosure agreements by posting on the Interweb and calling out specific players in public is between GBT, FTP and the individual players. However, the possible harm to FTP player-debtors seems miniscule in relation to the wider impact on FTP player-depositors who stand to benefit from a successful closing of the proposed GBT-FTP deal.
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Old 02-09-2012, 06:48 PM   #24
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Re: PokerCast Episode 208 - Nick Jones & Two Plus Two Player Summit

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenRunkle View Post
Mike: Your rant re GBT and the FTP player loans was offside, imo.

In an asset purchase M&A transaction, it is 100% standard for the buyer to assume collection of receivables, promissory notes and other non-cash assets such as player loans. Typically, such assets are valued at a discount based on good faith estimates of collectability. Very often, there will be a negotiated post-closing adjustment based on the actual collections experience. These matters are always addressed in the detailed terms and conditions of a deal prior to closing.

In this case, GBT seems to be attempting to assess the value of the FTP player loans in a pre-closing due diligence exercise. It would be reckless for GBT to accept FTP's estimate without some independent process, and it is likely that FTP agreed to allow GBT to contact specific FTP player-debtors about their debts owed to FTP.

Whether or not GBT violated any non-disclosure agreements by posting on the Interweb and calling out specific players in public is between GBT, FTP and the individual players. However, the possible harm to FTP player-debtors seems miniscule in relation to the wider impact on FTP player-depositors who stand to benefit from a successful closing of the proposed GBT-FTP deal.
Clearly it isn't just between those three parties as GBT knows full well that this deal involves thousands of people that are also owed money that are watching this deal unfold closely. If GBT didn't know it would get the poker community all riled up, they wouldn't have gone to the media and leaked out a select few of the names on the list, they would have just contacted the players behind the scenes. Further, for GBT to out these players as being deadbeat welchers when GBT weren't the ones who originally loaned the money(provided markers) and don't know any of the specifics of repayment terms, whether the numbers are even close to accurate and other details is offside on their part, IMO. Also, GBT should have come up with an adjusted value they were happy with for the 16.5m in staledated markers before they originally arrived at the $80m asset purchase amount back in December. Nothing has changed since then. I stand by my belief that if the likes of Layne Flack and Mike Matusow paying back gambling debts carries any kind bearing on making or breaking the deal, then the initial asset purchase agreement wasn't that real in the first place.
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Old 02-09-2012, 06:59 PM   #25
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Re: PokerCast Episode 208 - Nick Jones & Two Plus Two Player Summit

Is it ironic that the EPL's "ethics committee" was successfully sued by a registered sex offender after only its first season?

What happens if they come back for a second season? Should we expect a war criminal to bring assult charges on Annie duke?

Between EPL's ethics and Ultimate Bet I just have to shake my head and wonder what the hell goes through peoples minds. Its gotta be some sick joke, at least then it would make sense.
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