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Old 08-09-2011, 11:56 AM   #1
Bunner
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PokerCast Episode 184 - Ben 'Sauce123' Sulsky, 'KingDan' Smith & Barry Greenstein

Live from the Two Plus Two Studios, August 8th 2011 - Ben "Sauce123" Sulsky. 'KingDan' Smith & Barry Greenstein This week on the Two Plus Two PokerCast Mike and Adam kick things off by talking about the 'Portuguese Poker Prodigy' Jose "Girah" Macedo scam connecting with Leggo Poker Coach Ben 'Sauce123' Sulsky to get his inside take on this latest online poker scandal. King Dan Smith was next up to share his thoughts about this hot topic and also his experience at this year's World Series of Poker including a great "slap in the face" prop bet. Mike and Adam were able to get Team PokerStars pro and friend of the show Barry Greenstein on the line to get the inside scoop on the theft of his Aston Martin DB9 from the San Diego Marriot's valet parking lot. Deuces Cracked coach OMGClayDol talks about '180 Player SNG Strategy' in this weeks Leggo Poker / Deuces Cracked strategy segment. Mike and Adam recap the TV Comedy Madness play in rounds and of course give away the password for the August 14th Poker Stars VIP Club Invitational for PokerCast listeners.


PokerCast Theme - Demitone Productions Inc. 2007 : Breking Bones - VHS or Beta - Diamonds and Death 2011 : Psycho - The Stone Foxes - Psycho b/w Serious People 2011 : Midnight City - M83 - Hurry Up, We're Dreaming 2011 :

Last edited by Mike Johnson; 08-09-2011 at 12:41 PM.
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Old 08-09-2011, 11:56 AM   #2
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Re: PokerCast Episode 184 - Barry Greenstein, Ben "Sauce123" Sulsky & "King" Dan Smith

first!

and mp3 link

http://pokercast.twoplustwo.com/podcast/184.mp3
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Old 08-09-2011, 12:00 PM   #3
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Re: PokerCast Episode 184 - Barry Greenstein, Ben "Sauce123" Sulsky & "King" Dan Smith

sekundth

Cant wait, this should be a good episode (as always).

Last edited by jefkve; 08-09-2011 at 12:07 PM.
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Old 08-09-2011, 12:04 PM   #4
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Re: PokerCast Episode 184 - Barry Greenstein, Ben "Sauce123" Sulsky & "King" Dan Smith

Third and leggo Barry G.
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Old 08-09-2011, 12:19 PM   #5
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Re: PokerCast Episode 184 - Barry Greenstein, Ben "Sauce123" Sulsky & "King" Dan Smith

Quick move on getting Sauce on the show. Look forward to listening
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Old 08-09-2011, 12:20 PM   #6
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Re: PokerCast Episode 184 - Barry Greenstein, Ben "Sauce123" Sulsky & "King" Dan Smith

FIFTH ...

Thanx!
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Old 08-09-2011, 12:20 PM   #7
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Re: PokerCast Episode 184 - Barry Greenstein, Ben "Sauce123" Sulsky & "King" Dan Smith

YEY
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Old 08-09-2011, 12:22 PM   #8
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Re: PokerCast Episode 184 - Barry Greenstein, Ben "Sauce123" Sulsky & "King" Dan Smith

time for my drive into the office -- thanx
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Old 08-09-2011, 12:46 PM   #9
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Re: PokerCast Episode 184 - Ben 'Sauce123' Sulsky, 'KingDan' Smith & Barry Greenstein

Crocs are so comfortable
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Old 08-09-2011, 12:53 PM   #10
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Re: PokerCast Episode 184 - Ben 'Sauce123' Sulsky, 'KingDan' Smith & Barry Greenstein

I don't think your shock that people were willing to let him sweat them is really warranted. Clearly some of the details around it were pretty sketchy, but online poker players are incredibly trusting of other people in the online poker world.

I can think of plenty of people who would be down if I just randomly said "Hey, I haven't played in a while, and I'm really rusty. Could I watch you play to get back in the swing of things?" And I'm sure lots of people do this all the time. Granted, it sounds like Jose was oddly pushy abou it and he suggested their opponent, but it's really not that surprising.

It seems way stupider in hindsight.

I mean.. it's pretty damn common in the poker world for someone to ship someone a ton of money so they can go play in some private cash game.

Edit: I guess a lot of that came out in the sauce interview. He came off really well, btw.

Last edited by NoahSD; 08-09-2011 at 01:10 PM.
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Old 08-09-2011, 01:05 PM   #11
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Re: PokerCast Episode 184 - Ben 'Sauce123' Sulsky, 'KingDan' Smith & Barry Greenstein

cool will listen !
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Old 08-09-2011, 01:18 PM   #12
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Re: PokerCast Episode 184 - Ben 'Sauce123' Sulsky, 'KingDan' Smith & Barry Greenstein

My PokerCast dies at around the 47 minute mark while sauce123 is talking about lending people thousands or tens of thousands of dollars (iTunes download). Anyone else having this issue?

Just re-tried, it's at about 46:45 and it just dies in the middle of Ben saying "I've lent thousands or even tens of thousands". Appears to be a problem with the iTunes download of this week's PokerCast right now.
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Old 08-09-2011, 01:28 PM   #13
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Re: PokerCast Episode 184 - Ben 'Sauce123' Sulsky, 'KingDan' Smith & Barry Greenstein

Lookin' forward to a great listen on a road trip I'm taking. Big fan of the show guys, keep up the amazing work!!
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Old 08-09-2011, 01:46 PM   #14
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Re: PokerCast Episode 184 - Ben 'Sauce123' Sulsky, 'KingDan' Smith & Barry Greenstein

Great. Can't wait to hear. Great that you have sauce123 so soon on the programme. Will you be able to get Haseeb on the show? Would be fair imo.
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Old 08-09-2011, 02:12 PM   #15
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Re: PokerCast Episode 184 - Ben 'Sauce123' Sulsky, 'KingDan' Smith & Barry Greenstein

Quote:
Originally Posted by SGT RJ View Post
My PokerCast dies at around the 47 minute mark while sauce123 is talking about lending people thousands or tens of thousands of dollars (iTunes download). Anyone else having this issue?

Just re-tried, it's at about 46:45 and it just dies in the middle of Ben saying "I've lent thousands or even tens of thousands". Appears to be a problem with the iTunes download of this week's PokerCast right now.
I"ve had this problem in the past with direct downloads. Just keep redownloading. Eventually you'll get the whole thing....(hopefully)
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Old 08-09-2011, 02:15 PM   #16
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Re: PokerCast Episode 184 - Ben 'Sauce123' Sulsky, 'KingDan' Smith & Barry Greenstein

Just started listening. Adam is right on the pronunciation of Macedo (the first Mike says in the podcast would be 'Machado'); also the second one of Girah is also the correct.
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Old 08-09-2011, 02:25 PM   #17
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Re: PokerCast Episode 184 - Ben 'Sauce123' Sulsky, 'KingDan' Smith & Barry Greenstein

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahSD View Post
I don't think your shock that people were willing to let him sweat them is really warranted. Clearly some of the details around it were pretty sketchy, but online poker players are incredibly trusting of other people in the online poker world.

I can think of plenty of people who would be down if I just randomly said "Hey, I haven't played in a while, and I'm really rusty. Could I watch you play to get back in the swing of things?" And I'm sure lots of people do this all the time. Granted, it sounds like Jose was oddly pushy abou it and he suggested their opponent, but it's really not that surprising.

It seems way stupider in hindsight.

I mean.. it's pretty damn common in the poker world for someone to ship someone a ton of money so they can go play in some private cash game.

Edit: I guess a lot of that came out in the sauce interview. He came off really well, btw.
Terrence Chan addresses the issue of trust on his blog http://terrencechanpoker.com
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Old 08-09-2011, 02:36 PM   #18
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Re: PokerCast Episode 184 - Ben 'Sauce123' Sulsky, 'KingDan' Smith & Barry Greenstein

NoahSD, you are right. Thats clearly how the pokerworld looks like today.
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Old 08-09-2011, 03:15 PM   #19
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Re: PokerCast Episode 184 - Ben 'Sauce123' Sulsky, 'KingDan' Smith & Barry Greenstein

You guys make it sound like Jose was just invited randomly into a high-stakes skype chat and then immediately pushed some of the players to play ''friends'' of his. This is absolutely ridiculous and I can't really fathom how you, when you run a podcast, can't bother to actually read upon the actual story. We'd all known Jose for more than 6 months, and he didn't tell anyone to play his friends. I have absolutely no clue where you've gotten this from, so well done just making that up. Jose first said he played a huge fish and ran bad, and that if anyone else ever played him he'd like to hear what they thought, and if they got his action he'd like to sweat.

As said, everyone knew Jose very well at this point, had spoken with him on skype call, had him on Facebook, had done transfers, etc, and the skype group where the actual high stakes players were in, was made from a group where we had a bunch (40+) players when we wanted more advanced strat talk.

After Jose actually started to push some of the guys towards these two players, we immediately got suspicious and I contacted Daniel (Jungle) and Ben (Sauce). The story was posted on 2p2 days afterwards.

Your entire way of interpreting and portraying this story is so ridiculous I actually expect an apology in your next podcast for calling a small group of high-stakes players, who are far more intelligent than you three, ''idiots'', ''suckers'', etc etc when you obviously didn't even bother checking up on the story properly.

Last edited by kjemmy; 08-09-2011 at 03:26 PM.
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Old 08-09-2011, 03:33 PM   #20
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Re: PokerCast Episode 184 - Ben 'Sauce123' Sulsky, 'KingDan' Smith & Barry Greenstein

Downloading and going to listen at work. My work ethics will be fired up tomorrow... <3 First, some sleep though.

Greetz from good old Germany.

Last edited by hankat; 08-09-2011 at 03:38 PM.
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Old 08-09-2011, 03:42 PM   #21
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Re: PokerCast Episode 184 - Ben 'Sauce123' Sulsky, 'KingDan' Smith & Barry Greenstein

So do we think the whole Ashton Griffin super-marathon running prop bet actually happened or was that all made up too?
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Old 08-09-2011, 03:55 PM   #22
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Re: PokerCast Episode 184 - Ben 'Sauce123' Sulsky, 'KingDan' Smith & Barry Greenstein

Quote:
Originally Posted by SGT RJ View Post
My PokerCast dies at around the 47 minute mark while sauce123 is talking about lending people thousands or tens of thousands of dollars (iTunes download). Anyone else having this issue?

Just re-tried, it's at about 46:45 and it just dies in the middle of Ben saying "I've lent thousands or even tens of thousands". Appears to be a problem with the iTunes download of this week's PokerCast right now.
Same issue here on my Samsung YP-T9 mp3 player . Had to skip a couple of seconds so it plays the rest of the file.
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Old 08-09-2011, 04:09 PM   #23
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Re: PokerCast Episode 184 - Ben 'Sauce123' Sulsky, 'KingDan' Smith & Barry Greenstein

Quote:
Originally Posted by kjemmy View Post
You guys make it sound like Jose was just invited randomly into a high-stakes skype chat and then immediately pushed some of the players to play ''friends'' of his. This is absolutely ridiculous and I can't really fathom how you, when you run a podcast, can't bother to actually read upon the actual story. We'd all known Jose for more than 6 months, and he didn't tell anyone to play his friends. I have absolutely no clue where you've gotten this from, so well done just making that up. Jose first said he played a huge fish and ran bad, and that if anyone else ever played him he'd like to hear what they thought, and if they got his action he'd like to sweat.
First, it's my fault that we got this part of the story wrong. For that, I apologize and certainly will on our next show. I will also apologize on twitter as many of our listeners follow me.

For some reason, I read that apology from Jose where he says sauron was a rich friend of his and thought that he told all the people he scammed the same story. No idea why I did that. I, in turn, told Mike that this was the case and he was going off what I told him regarding that part of the story.

It's no excuse certainly, but the story broke on the day we were doing the show and it's hard to get all the facts from the huge threads that ensued. Mike has a day job and I haven't had as much time lately as I normally do to follow all the drama bombs and clearly this resulted in us getting part of this story wrong. Again, I apologize.

Quote:
As said, everyone knew Jose very well at this point, had spoken with him on skype call, had him on Facebook, had done transfers, etc, and the skype group where the actual high stakes players were in, was made from a group where we had a bunch (40+) players when we wanted more advanced strat talk.
You have to understand that people in the real world will be pretty amused by the fact that you think knowing someone for 6 months means you know him very well.

Had you ever met him in real life? Do you know where he lives? Do you know who he hangs out with IRL? Do you know if he uses drugs? Drinks? Gambles on sports etc? Has mental issues?

These would all be questions I could answer of all the people I would trust with any amount of my money.

This is the part that we don't understand.

Quote:
Your entire way of interpreting and portraying this story is so ridiculous I actually expect an apology in your next podcast for calling a small group of high-stakes players, who are far more intelligent than you three, ''idiots'', ''suckers'', etc etc when you obviously didn't even bother checking up on the story properly.
Clearly, you and your group are very talented poker players, but that's a pretty narrow indication of overall intelligence. You don't know Mike or myself even close to well enough to make that assumption based on one mistake I made interpreting all the data from this one story.

It may be true that you are all much smarter than us, but you see the pattern of making absolute decisions about people with not a lot of information right? Trusting them with your hole cards or saying everyone is more intelligent than us in this example.

I don't remember calling you guys "idiots", but I think clearly we were saying that it's pretty naive for very smart people to allow what happened to happen. The difference here is we portrayed you as intelligent people that made a careless decision and you simply call us less intelligent than your whole group.

No offense, but if a guy I had "known" for 6 months called me on the phone/messaged me and told me I should go play some random sitting at a table by himself and let him watch while doing so, a whole bunch of red flags would go off in my head.

As someone much more intelligent than me, I'm surprised that those same concerns didn't occur to you.
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Old 08-09-2011, 04:19 PM   #24
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Re: PokerCast Episode 184 - Ben 'Sauce123' Sulsky, 'KingDan' Smith & Barry Greenstein

Quote:
Originally Posted by AceMuncher View Post
Same issue here on my Samsung YP-T9 mp3 player . Had to skip a couple of seconds so it plays the rest of the file.
Thank you, did that and am now listening to the rest of it.
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Old 08-09-2011, 04:53 PM   #25
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Re: PokerCast Episode 184 - Ben 'Sauce123' Sulsky, 'KingDan' Smith & Barry Greenstein

Quote:
Originally Posted by kjemmy View Post
You guys make it sound like Jose was just invited randomly into a high-stakes skype chat and then immediately pushed some of the players to play ''friends'' of his. This is absolutely ridiculous and I can't really fathom how you, when you run a podcast, can't bother to actually read upon the actual story. We'd all known Jose for more than 6 months, and he didn't tell anyone to play his friends. I have absolutely no clue where you've gotten this from, so well done just making that up. Jose first said he played a huge fish and ran bad, and that if anyone else ever played him he'd like to hear what they thought, and if they got his action he'd like to sweat.

As said, everyone knew Jose very well at this point, had spoken with him on skype call, had him on Facebook, had done transfers, etc, and the skype group where the actual high stakes players were in, was made from a group where we had a bunch (40+) players when we wanted more advanced strat talk.

After Jose actually started to push some of the guys towards these two players, we immediately got suspicious and I contacted Daniel (Jungle) and Ben (Sauce). The story was posted on 2p2 days afterwards.

Your entire way of interpreting and portraying this story is so ridiculous I actually expect an apology in your next podcast for calling a small group of players, who are far more intelligent than you three, idiots, suckers, etc etc when you obviously haven't checked up on the story properly.
Kjemmy,

We made it clear the thread was lengthy and the details of the story were still unfolding as we went to air. I can't place exactly where I read that Jose claimed to the others in the skype group that he knew 'sauron1989' but I obviously had that part of the story wrong. Ben Sulsky was quick to correct myself and the audience that I was mistaken about this so I don't believe there is still any misunderstanding on this one point.

Nowhere in the show did we portray that 'Jose was just invited randomly into a high-stakes skype chat and then immediately pushed some of the players to play ''friends'' of his.' In fact, we referred to him as a sociopath on several occasions and referenced multiple times the amount of elaborate leg work it took to gain the trust of the others in the skype group. I disagree with your interpretation.

Calling the people that were stolen from 'suckers' is an opinion. I stand by that. There are no circumstances under which I would let someone not in the same room as me, view my holecards while playing for any kind of significant stakes and unaware of what they may be doing with the hole card info. Many others that I have spoken to agree with this opinion. You can disagree with that opinion all you want, but I'm not going to apologize for it. If anything, you are welcome to apologize for assuming that your 40 friends, some of whom were foolish enough IMO to get scammed are more intelligent that we are, when you don't even know us.

Quote:
After Jose actually started to push some of the guys towards these two players, we immediately got suspicious and I contacted Daniel (Jungle) and Ben (Sauce)..
Obviously not everyone was suspicious enough, otherwise the scam wouldn't have been successful, but certainly good news that most of you were able to pick up on this.

edit - hadn't read Adam's reply prior to writing this.

Last edited by Mike Johnson; 08-09-2011 at 05:02 PM.
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