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Old 10-26-2010, 09:24 AM   #1
Bunner
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PokerCast Episode 145 - Dan Harrington, Andrew Robl & Tyler Andrews

Live from Two Plus Two Studios, October 25th 2010 - The feature guest this week on the Two Plus Two PokerCast is Main Event Champion and poker author Dan Harrington. Dan makes his return to the PokerCast to talk about his new book "Harrington on Online Cash Games" and his recent induction into the Poker Hall of Fame. During the first segment Mike and Adam track down Andrew Robl to get his take on the straddle controversy that occurred on the latest episode of PokerStars The Big Game. The guys also connect with Two Plus Two legal representative Tyler Andrews to get the latest on an ongoing lawsuit involving Two Plus Two and discuss the upcoming elections and how they will effect the online game. Deuces Cracked coach Syous provides some more great poker strategy about 'Transition from HU to 6-Max' in this weeks Leggo Poker/Deuces Cracked strategy segment. The guys also discuss forum static, tournament news and of course give away the passwords for the October 31st Poker Stars VIP Club Invitational for PokerCast listeners.


PokerCast Theme - Demitone Productions Inc. 2007 : Baby Lee - Teenage Fanclub - Shadows 2010 : White Knuckle Ride - Jamiroquai - Rock Dust Light Star 2010 : Patience - Nas & Damian Marley - Distant Relatives 2010 : The Raven - Produced by John 'JimmyLegs' Wray - Written by Jake 'defenestrate' Sapozhnikov - Narrated by Nathan Baker 2009 :
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Old 10-26-2010, 09:32 AM   #2
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Re: PokerCast Episode 145 - Dan Harrington, Andrew Robl & Tyler Andrews

first...

Dan Harrington been looking foward to seeing him back, d/ling now
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Old 10-26-2010, 09:38 AM   #3
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Re: PokerCast Episode 145 - Dan Harrington, Andrew Robl & Tyler Andrews

Thanks!
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Old 10-26-2010, 09:43 AM   #4
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Re: PokerCast Episode 145 - Dan Harrington, Andrew Robl & Tyler Andrews

woohoo - downloading now - ready for the commute.
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Old 10-26-2010, 09:44 AM   #5
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Re: PokerCast Episode 145 - Dan Harrington, Andrew Robl & Tyler Andrews

best. intro. EVER.
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Old 10-26-2010, 10:11 AM   #6
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Thumbs up Re: PokerCast Episode 145 - Dan Harrington, Andrew Robl & Tyler Andrews

What a coup getting Robl on.
applause.gif
Normally a Wednesday/Thursday listener. I was nearly 1rd this week!
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Old 10-26-2010, 10:30 AM   #7
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Re: PokerCast Episode 145 - Dan Harrington, Andrew Robl & Tyler Andrews

They are filming 1 "week" per day.
Andrew was listed as an alternative for all of the days, thats why he was put up.

Andrew also did a blogpost about it :
http://www.andrewrobl.com/blog/2010/...ig-game-drama/
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Old 10-26-2010, 10:43 AM   #8
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Re: PokerCast Episode 145 - Dan Harrington, Andrew Robl & Tyler Andrews

wooot!
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Old 10-26-2010, 10:48 AM   #9
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Re: PokerCast Episode 145 - Dan Harrington, Andrew Robl & Tyler Andrews

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/37...l#post22439917

Negreanu's response regarding the big game action
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Old 10-26-2010, 11:29 AM   #10
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Re: PokerCast Episode 145 - Dan Harrington, Andrew Robl & Tyler Andrews

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gkeuler View Post
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/37...l#post22439917

Negreanu's response regarding the big game action
lol negraunu is such an idiot. If he was well known for taking too long then he shouldnt have been invited, simple.
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Old 10-26-2010, 12:00 PM   #11
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Re: PokerCast Episode 145 - Dan Harrington, Andrew Robl & Tyler Andrews

Any linkage to thread re 2+2 lawsuit??
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Old 10-26-2010, 12:02 PM   #12
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Re: PokerCast Episode 145 - Dan Harrington, Andrew Robl & Tyler Andrews

Yeah and i guess negreanu and tony g dont own the production company so why do they even care. Robl has his style obv, dont invite him if you dont want him there.
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Old 10-26-2010, 12:02 PM   #13
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Re: PokerCast Episode 145 - Dan Harrington, Andrew Robl & Tyler Andrews

lol sick MJ. you seem to be doing well in the MTTs lately. simple solution to your problem is to just put hedphones into your laptop!
weeve all done it though, so tilting as you always wake up just before you get set auto all in
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Old 10-26-2010, 12:31 PM   #14
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Re: PokerCast Episode 145 - Dan Harrington, Andrew Robl & Tyler Andrews

Ok, you guys know I love you, right? Good. I hope you keep that in mind as you read this.

Jesus, you get a HUGE FAIL regarding your reporting of how Jared Huggins made it through the qualifiers. You essentially said that Jared made it through because he got special treatment at the tables based on who he is. That's an interesting story, but completely false.

Because no one at Jared's tables knew who he was.

In these freerolls, observer chat is switched off unless you've actually registered in the tournament. And given that Sunday was a Round 3 freeroll, none of Jared's hundreds of supporters could chat at any of his tables. We were going crazy in the forums, but his table was silent. And at no time did Jared tell his tablemates who he was or ask for any special treatment. Yes, he got a few walks, but these plays are very very common in freerolls and I defy you to find a table in that tournament where the shortstacks weren't receiving similar gifts from sympathetic table captains. Any walks or softplay that Jared benefited from were a result of independent actions by the other players.

Again, Jared never asked for help from the other players, and no one knew who he was.

Jared's been relentlessly grinding these freerolls for three weeks, sometimes playing as many as four a day using the free WiFi at Starbucks. He had to survive not one, but THREE separate rounds of qualifiers with thousands of participants in each. And he finally qualified on Sunday. But by reporting that he got special treatment and essentially cheated his way through, you have diminished his hard work and personal achievement, and you've risked destroying the good will that Jared has earned in the community.

We've already had enough trouble fending off the ignorant trolls who want to paint Jared as a con artist. The last thing we need is you guys falsely reporting that Jared cheated his way through the freerolls.
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Old 10-26-2010, 12:34 PM   #15
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Re: PokerCast Episode 145 - Dan Harrington, Andrew Robl & Tyler Andrews

Looking forward to listening to this later, already read both Daniel and Andrew's side on the big game, to be it looks worse on Daniel IMO
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Old 10-26-2010, 01:01 PM   #16
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Re: PokerCast Episode 145 - Dan Harrington, Andrew Robl & Tyler Andrews

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyLegs View Post
Ok, you guys know I love you, right? Good. I hope you keep that in mind as you read this.

Jesus, you get a HUGE FAIL regarding your reporting of how Jared Huggins made it through the qualifiers. You essentially said that Jared made it through because he got special treatment at the tables based on who he is. That's an interesting story, but completely false.

Because no one at Jared's tables knew who he was.

In these freerolls, observer chat is switched off unless you've actually registered in the tournament. And given that Sunday was a Round 3 freeroll, none of Jared's hundreds of supporters could chat at any of his tables. We were going crazy in the forums, but his table was silent. And at no time did Jared tell his tablemates who he was or ask for any special treatment. Yes, he got a few walks, but these plays are very very common in freerolls and I defy you to find a table in that tournament where the shortstacks weren't receiving similar gifts from sympathetic table captains. Any walks or softplay that Jared benefited from were a result of independent actions by the other players.

Again, Jared never asked for help from the other players, and no one knew who he was.

Jared's been relentlessly grinding these freerolls for three weeks, sometimes playing as many as four a day using the free WiFi at Starbucks. He had to survive not one, but THREE separate rounds of qualifiers with thousands of participants in each. And he finally qualified on Sunday. But by reporting that he got special treatment and essentially cheated his way through, you have diminished his hard work and personal achievement, and you've risked destroying the good will that Jared has earned in the community.

We've already had enough trouble fending off the ignorant trolls who want to paint Jared as a con artist. The last thing we need is you guys falsely reporting that Jared cheated his way through the freerolls.
Hey Jimmy,

I understand your concern. This one is on me as Adam didn't follow the sweat thread, I did. I wasn't watching the action at the table, only the sweat thread.

People were writing
'he has to get a walk',
'good thing he has the chipleader on his side'
'he's sure to get a walk every round'
'I like how all these people are helping him into the final 200',
'No, Ace did the exact right thing. Ate more time, and shipped him extra cash.'

Reading these comments in the sweat thread you can imagine how I might conclude that someone at the table knew who Jared was. This was the info I was going off of.

I don't think I ever inferred that Jared asked or lobbied anyone to give him walks or fold when he was ultra short. I was simply acknowledging that it was happening and I have to disagree that giving walks on a satellite bubble is standard practice.

Anyway, I can't imagine that Jared thinks I painted him as a cheater, but if he does I certainly apologize. The point of bringing it up was to discuss the subject of taking it easy on players at your table on a satellite bubble when it can negatively effect the players at other tables who may not be getting the same type of treatment.

In other news, how bout that poker Halloween poem 'The R4V3N' at the end of the show.

Last edited by Mike Johnson; 10-26-2010 at 01:15 PM.
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Old 10-26-2010, 01:04 PM   #17
Gkeuler
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Re: PokerCast Episode 145 - Dan Harrington, Andrew Robl & Tyler Andrews

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyLegs View Post
Ok, you guys know I love you, right? Good. I hope you keep that in mind as you read this.

Jesus, you get a HUGE FAIL regarding your reporting of how Jared Huggins made it through the qualifiers. You essentially said that Jared made it through because he got special treatment at the tables based on who he is. That's an interesting story, but completely false.

Because no one at Jared's tables knew who he was.

In these freerolls, observer chat is switched off unless you've actually registered in the tournament. And given that Sunday was a Round 3 freeroll, none of Jared's hundreds of supporters could chat at any of his tables. We were going crazy in the forums, but his table was silent. And at no time did Jared tell his tablemates who he was or ask for any special treatment. Yes, he got a few walks, but these plays are very very common in freerolls and I defy you to find a table in that tournament where the shortstacks weren't receiving similar gifts from sympathetic table captains. Any walks or softplay that Jared benefited from were a result of independent actions by the other players.

Again, Jared never asked for help from the other players, and no one knew who he was.

Jared's been relentlessly grinding these freerolls for three weeks, sometimes playing as many as four a day using the free WiFi at Starbucks. He had to survive not one, but THREE separate rounds of qualifiers with thousands of participants in each. And he finally qualified on Sunday. But by reporting that he got special treatment and essentially cheated his way through, you have diminished his hard work and personal achievement, and you've risked destroying the good will that Jared has earned in the community.

We've already had enough trouble fending off the ignorant trolls who want to paint Jared as a con artist. The last thing we need is you guys falsely reporting that Jared cheated his way through the freerolls.

woah, I didn't get that impression at all man. I kinda thought the remark about the walks was a throw away line that they just ran with. the discussion that they did have felt more like dissecting the situation in a vacuum then a personal judgment of the entire situation
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Old 10-26-2010, 01:41 PM   #18
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Re: PokerCast Episode 145 - Dan Harrington, Andrew Robl & Tyler Andrews

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Johnson View Post
I was simply acknowledging that it was happening and I have to disagree that giving walks on a satellite bubble is standard practice.
As I've discovered, it IS standard practice... in freerolls. I'm not saying it's any less wrong, just that it's epidemic in the freerolls. We've been railing Jared for three weeks and I've seen these things happen constantly. In fact there were tables where players were openly negotiating how all nine could get through to the next round.

You have to keep in mind that many of these players have not signed up for real money play and don't know anything about poker etiquette and ethics. They have no idea what's against the rules and so they talk quite openly about working together to get through the tournament.

But by singling out Jared's experience you were implying that he got special treatment and painted him as the beneficiary of (if not a willing participant in) cheating. Adam actually called it collusion around the 10:10 mark, and several times you guys said it was an unfair advantage if other players weren't getting similar treatment at other tables. But they WERE getting similar treatment at other tables - that's the whole point. I think it's a disservice to single out Jared given how rampant the softplay was at all tables and given the fact that he never asked anyone for help.

Quote:
Anyway, I can't imagine that Jared thinks I painted him as a cheater, but if he does I certainly apologize. The point of bringing it up was to discuss the subject of taking it easy on players at your table on a satellite bubble when it can negatively effect the players at other tables who may not be getting the same type of treatment.
Collusion is certainly a worthy topic for debate, but I think you guys are really underestimating how pervasive it is in the freerolls. And I think it was unfair to lead into it with the story of Jared getting through after three weeks of hard work.

Listen, I apologize for coming out guns-blazing. I'm personally involved and emotionally invested in his story so I get passionate about it. I'm hyper-aware that many people think the whole thing is a scam and since I'm one of the few posters who has actually met him in person I feel a certain responsibility to vouch for him.

Quote:
In other news, how bout that poker Halloween poem 'The R4V3N' at the end of the show.
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Old 10-26-2010, 02:03 PM   #19
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Re: PokerCast Episode 145 - Dan Harrington, Andrew Robl & Tyler Andrews

re: Botting.

I'd like to take on some of the better bots as an intellectual challenge, if the bots were labelled clearly and i'm sure others would too. There would need to be some serious regulation on their behavior though so that they couldn't freeroll human players by jumping out of games until they'd lost some %'ge of their roll (ie. a published stop-loss) and no short stacking as that is largely solved.

Bots v bots for $ is the other scenario. Academically AI in this form is in its infancy, some of the strategies used by bots in NL games aren't all that good and are highly exploitable to those that recognise the holes. Having real money bots would make for an interesting sideline, and potentially become a prestigious inter university type challenge. Support from the sites for this would be interesting.

fwiw - I Got the JimmyLegs impression re: cheating

Sorrow
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Old 10-26-2010, 02:11 PM   #20
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Re: PokerCast Episode 145 - Dan Harrington, Andrew Robl & Tyler Andrews

come on Mike who plays with the sound turned on? I turned that off years ago (along with animation and the other annoying options) and have never thought to turn it on again.

Good story though, would have been better if you woke up as chip leader because you fell asleep with your finger on the mouse and just jammed every hand and won.
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Old 10-26-2010, 02:19 PM   #21
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Re: PokerCast Episode 145 - Dan Harrington, Andrew Robl & Tyler Andrews

Quote:
Originally Posted by tripsONacid View Post
What a coup getting Robl on.
Agree, but even better would be having Daniel on too, he's been getting mercilessly denigrated on 2+2 but he is still posting and defending his actions
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Old 10-26-2010, 02:24 PM   #22
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Re: PokerCast Episode 145 - Dan Harrington, Andrew Robl & Tyler Andrews

Quote:
Originally Posted by adammclad View Post
lol negraunu is such an idiot. If he was well known for taking too long then he shouldnt have been invited, simple.
Negreanu's reply seems completely reasonable, what's the problem? I agree with him, if you are being paid (a LOT apparently) to be on a sponsored televised poker program you do have some obligation to go along with things like that.

I think viffer said on one of his appearances "don't look like a huge nit on national TV." Words to live by.
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Old 10-26-2010, 02:35 PM   #23
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Re: PokerCast Episode 145 - Dan Harrington, Andrew Robl & Tyler Andrews

Quote:
Originally Posted by Verstehen View Post
Negreanu's reply seems completely reasonable, what's the problem? I agree with him, if you are being paid (a LOT apparently) to be on a sponsored televised poker program you do have some obligation to go along with things like that.
I don't really have any problem with DN's take on Robl, that's his call to make as he sees fit.

It's the way he went about it, verbally berating him in front of the cameras that I didn't like.

The "thanks for the assist HI 5" to TG was also not cool.
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Old 10-26-2010, 02:36 PM   #24
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Re: PokerCast Episode 145 - Dan Harrington, Andrew Robl & Tyler Andrews

oh I meant his forum reply that people linked to, not what he did in the game.
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Old 10-26-2010, 02:39 PM   #25
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Re: PokerCast Episode 145 - Dan Harrington, Andrew Robl & Tyler Andrews

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyLegs View Post

Because no one at Jared's tables knew who he was.

In these freerolls, observer chat is switched off unless you've actually registered in the tournament. And given that Sunday was a Round 3 freeroll, none of Jared's hundreds of supporters could chat at any of his tables. We were going crazy in the forums, but his table was silent. And at no time did Jared tell his tablemates who he was or ask for any special treatment.
No worries Jimmy. I guess the only last point I would make is how can you be certain that no one knew who he was. His story has been on the front page of NVG for weeks now. Even if they didn't know who he was before that tourney, you mentioned people were going crazy in the forums, references were made in the thread to the screen names of the other players at the table. If any of them happened to read the thread, they would have certainly figured things out very quickly.

I don't think we can know for sure that the other people at his table didn't know what was going on solely on the fact that table chat was turned off.
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