To me, an angle is using the letter of the rules to take advantage of another player. Say, using "cards speak" to over-rule mis-declaring your hand in a place where that's technically legal. I think that's where TChan was going as he started to try to get Adam to define angle -- if it is actually cheating, it is just cheating and not an angle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdspwt
No...he shoved and disguised it with only 3 chips attempting to trick the guy. Angle all day long.
This would be especially true if the flop comes 9
8
7
vs his A
A
and he tries to argue that it wasn't all-in, because the guy with the headphones only called $15 or whatever.
Even without, he was using the rules to get the other player to unknowingly commit a huge stack. I don't play enough NL to know if this is technically OK, but it sure seems like "dude, I'm going to punish you by tricking you into putting your whole stack in, when you didn't think you did".
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamSchwartz
So what do you think happens if earphones guy flops trips?
If he's found a way where he can decide after seeing the flop whether he's in for $15 or 250BB, then he's cheating.
Quote:
Usually here (In Manila) after an all in and a call the dealer would physically make the pot and then run the cards but i dont know in Vegas. I remember from my Reno days that happening (physically combining the chips) before.
Even though this might slow down the game, seems reasonable that the pot is made before the flop is dealt.
To Adam's point, it is possible that they're both angling/cheating. I don't think it is any way unreasonable for the guy's friend to point out that his play is either A) borderline scummy or B) a flat out angle. Tricking the guy about the bet size has to be in some way a little bit wrong, even if he had it coming.
The guy with the headphones who isn't paying attention is a jerk. End stop. He's wrong and he's stealing time from everyone in the game. He's making the table worse for everyone there. Does it then make it OK to trick him out of his stack? IDK. It could be that the custom in your casino makes that frontier justice and well deserved. It is my observation that this is one of the ways small stakes big bet games are unpleasant. The fight over whether he called $15 or $2000 (or whatever the number) is just always going to be ugly, and if they're regulars, it will come up again and again.
Maybe I'm totally wrong about this, but isn't it at least a bit off to force someone to call a huge bet when he thinks he's calling a small one? Maybe it is completely legal and standard? The fact that you have to use the "had it coming" defense seems to admit as much. The fact that it is important for this ruling to include that the villain was a jerk seems to make our hero's action seem angle -- remove all the lead up and tell the story to someone who hadn't hear it... just say, "I put in three chips and say all-in. Villain doesn't hear and says call. Other people at the table heard me, as did dealer. Villain calls with 1 chip." What do people say?
Last edited by DougL; 01-23-2018 at 02:20 PM.