I see.
I guess we expect poker players to realize it's basically an EV calculation like any other. And that's fair.
And I would *not* say categorically never to loan people money to gamble. Gambling can be like any other venture for someone with capital. I get that.
And I'd repeat that in the context of understanding the existing norms and conventions in high stakes poker, we absolutely should not spare Leon condemnation for his welching / angle shot simply because the deal wasn't put in writing. Like you said, someone being insecure with their car doesn't give you the right to steal it.
But: I am but an amateur / low stakes donk, and I can appreciate the high stakes communities norms and why they operate without deals in writing, contracts, or formality.
Still, in the context of how to improve this going forward, I maintain "put five figure plus loans in writing" remains the optimal solution that serves like every other industry and walk of life.
So long as the sums of money are vast, counting on honor and handshakes and informal standards are a recipe for the incentives of the large sum of money overriding any decency or norms.
That is: it seems like a bad norm and most of the problems that spring forth are predictable. Doesn't necessarily reduce my sympathy for the guys getting screwed or reduce the guilt of the offenders.
Minor retort to my response: I do make some exception for the people who are loaning money to impulsive/desperate/drunk people to gamble against themselves. It's one thing to say, for instance, stake an impulsive friend and root them on even if you think it's sort of -EV or a bad idea. And then you expect the money back because you're friends. You still expect your friend to honor their word. The dude lending the money should not expect to be stiffed.
However if you're loaning money to a guy who is on tilt, desperate, buzzed, etc. and then you play him on credit, that can devolve into excessively predatory. Poker is necessarily a game of predation but norms should include limits. This is very, very situational / contextual though.
Last edited by DVaut1; 11-20-2017 at 07:33 AM.