Hey guys -

y'all asked a question about underage players - wanting to know what others think.

From my perspective, I don't think guys playing at a young age is bad. Why?
Because I see real poker as a game of skill.
There is a lot of luck necessary, but ultimately, how you maximize your "lucky" hands is how you become a winning player.

Another reason is that the more you play, the better you become. Why should a person have to wait to be 18 to start playing competitive poker? Haven't we all seen young talents in sports, chess, bridge and backgammon? How much different is poker to these games? Why prevent a young prodigy from fully developing? Annette is a classic example.

That said, I think it would be irresponsible to let a kid take a second mortgage on a house and play with that money. Maybe there should be a money limit based on a person's age (for online play).

But banning young players from playing for real is a bad idea. Have you ever played in the "play" money or free rolls? This is far from poker. It's an all-in fest. It's hard to learn how to play a game where pressuring an opponent for real stakes is eliminated from your toolbox.

my 2¢.

keep up the good work - congrats on joining 2+2.

HN.

Its good if you cant play until you reach the 18th birthday. most underaged people cant control themselves and not take this serious enough. you can lose much money in no time and make ur life just awful if you dont care.

i know some underaged players who care and play pretty good poker on midstakes like nl200 and even nl400 but the majority will fail.

Hiro - simple answer, its illegal in most states in the US. Gambling laws are dictated by states until you cross state lines, then you add an additional layer of federal regulations. Federal regulations can supersede state regulations, however the feds cannot dictate who can and cannot gamble within state lines. At this time there is no state that has a legal gambling age of under 21, there are some legal exceptions within autonomous areas controlled by Indian nations but that is the exception to the rule.

I can only speak for US regulations, other countries may or may not have similar rules and regulations.

I'm not advocating breaking laws... our Canadian "Rounders" friends recently discussed the pros and cons of young players and poker.
I was simply contributing to the discussion.

If a young player wanted to join a home game, I say "let him in." But for a reasonable amount. After all, wasn't Jenn Harman kicking butt as a young kid? (BTW, home games are illegal in the U.S. - so letting a young player in is only bad if they tell their mom.)

Governments love telling people what to do and when to do it. This is not meant to be a discussion of law, but more of ethics. Can an under-aged player understand the game well enough and realize the consequences of their actions to play with the "older" kids? I think so.

You have to remember that cases like Annette_15, Daniel Negreanu and Jen Harman are the exception, not the norm though. For evey person like that who can make profits at an early age and turn these early games as a learning tool, I am sure you can find 2 or 3 that are gaining bad lives habit and getting broke many times.

The reason minimum ages are set for stuff like gambling and booze (and wether the minimum age should be increased or decreased is another debate) is because, we, as a society judge that these activities require a certain amount of maturity to be performed in a sane way.

Now when I have kids, if they want to start playing poker for money when they are teen, I'd be ok with it but under certain condition. I would closely monitor their playing habits, making sure poker would not get in the way of their studies or social lives. I would also take a good look at how they managed the money they play. Losing can easily turn into a big downward spiral.

Guessing this is the kind of discussion you wanted to open with your post

Our "Canadian" Rounders friends are now representing the 2+2 community as a whole, a world-wide userbase. We try to think big by addressing the needs and concerns of all users regardless of county, while discussing the unique needs of specific regions. For example the discussion of the German crackdown in the first episode.


your misinformed, there is no federal law that makes home games illegal in the US. Home games are subject to the state, county, and city laws that may apply, this means that as you travel the US the laws that govern poker change drastically.

In short your trying to argue a moral point, but in the US gambling is a constitutional issue - states have the exclusive authority to make decisions unless the gambling takes place across state lines. This removes the moral ethics from the discussion on a national level. Now if you want to argue the morality of playing poker in a specific city then you can make a decent argument.

I think its bad for kids to be exposed to any sort of gambling at a young age, because many kids, much like adults, can get sucked into losing obscene amounts of money before they realize they might have a gambling problem. Many say that its important to not drop out of college to pursue a poker career, but its even more important to at least finish high school.

on the flip side, I do feel poker is a game of skill, and anyone who plays skillfully will be able to make a profit over time, and its unfortunate that many young underage poker geniuses like JJ prodigy are not allowed to play, but the rules are in place for their own protection and the game will still be there when they turn 18. It would be like telling Martina Hingis that she couldnt turn pro until she was 21, even though she is the best at her craft at the age of 14. But again, poker players and gamblers in general are seen as the scum of the earth to a lot of people and its probably best for the future of the game that these young kids stay away from poker so watch dog groups dont make a fuss about how poker is corrupting our children and ruining all chance they have to lead a meaningful respectable life.

when I think about all the dumb things JJprodigy did though, the underage playing is the least of my concerns. The multi accounting though is absolutely horrendous and selfish though, and I still can't figure why a supposed 'great' player would need to enter into an tournament multiple times to give him a greater chance of winning. These people must be absolutely addicted to making money, but if youre a good player, you can make lots of money without cheating, so why bother taking that risk?

huh?

I'm not sure this thread is intended for you, TT. Again, not looking to begin a grassroots campaign to legalize anything. Adam and Mike had requested listeners' POV on should young players be allowed to play - I was simply commenting on this topic.

Beside, being that I'm not a gaming lawyer, so I can't really comment on what the state line exclusive authority decisions are on constitutional gambling issues under federal jurisdiction.

But as an average Joe who has played poker for a while and have seen young family members take it up, I see poker as a positive influence when taught as a game with rules, and a craft that requires study and discipline.

Maybe the conversation should be about the "game" vs "gambling" - and should kids be allowed to play such a game? (regardless of what the state, local, national and international laws currently state.)

In this context, don't we encourage them play monopoly? Isn't there luck involved on who lands on Boardwalk or Park Place? How many other kids games have dice or spinning wheels to randomize the outcome? (I know, Bob, the Hungry Hungry Hippo does not!) How is this so different? How is poker more addicting than video games?

I'm not sure I want to touch the "morality" thing - bringing religion into this opens a whole other can of worms that may just sidetrack the issue.

So far, other posters make some valid points. Adam & Mike, I hope you're reading this.

HN

well being 16 my self (present) i started playing at age 13 in home games (£5 or £10), and i can honestly say that my studies have not been affected at all. maths grades have shot through the roof. the only thing is....i cant wait any longer to get out into the poker world. Also i feel i cannot not play. I LOVE it to much.
the things like the JJprodigy scenario just spurs me on.
So i started making some money losing some money playing home games, but then last year ventured into a couple of pub games i new about, so in the lasy year and a half have won consistently and am up a lot of money for a 16 year old .

If im not playing im reading about it or studying some other way.

A lot of society's rules and regulations are set up for the "general case" and thus those on the 'edges' get unfair treatment. Your question is one of these areas. There are a TON of kids that should not be allowed to gamble or drink ... they are just not mature enough to deal with the consequences .. thus those who can deal with the consequences must go along with the majority. There are also many people over 18 who can't handle drinking or gambling either .. it's just there's not as many of those (in percentage terms). So society makes an arbitrary cutoff. The number 18 is TOTALLY arbitrary .. it could just as easily be 16 or 20. And if the number were 16, there would be some 15 year olds that were unfairly being 'dealt out'. And so it goes. Wherever the line is drawn, there are going to be 'exceptional cases'. You are one of them.

well look forward to reading more posts.

just goner keep on studying and improving my game. dont no whether i will play online for real until im over 18.
Wd evry one think ha???

Hiro-

travel through time and play whenever you want k?