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The Well:  Proofrock The Well:  Proofrock

09-12-2008 , 03:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexB182
Single thing that helped you most to get your game to a different (aka better) level?
Watching a few good videos from one of the training sites really did it for me. I mean, I'd spent a lot of time reading books, posting hands and analyzing spots in isolation, but watching how a good player puts all of those together, how they think is hugely important. Really it just took 2 or 3 videos to move my game to the next level -- beyond those first few there are definitely diminishing returns.

Quote:
Did you ever have a coach?
No, but I've sometimes considered it. I hear it can be very worthwhile. Mostly I just post/read 2p2, read books, study videos and analyze my game after most sessions.

One thing I've been missing though is having a network of people with whom I can discuss hands -- I think that's extremely important, but my natural introvert tendencies has kept me from discussing hands with many people. If anybody wants to discuss hands with me PM me and we can exchange AIM names -- i'm always interested in discussing hands / sweating / being sweated.
09-12-2008 , 05:09 PM
How many minutes/hours a day do you spend on 2+2?

How many minutes/hours a day do you spend playing poker?

Worst downswing of your poker career?

It sounds like you play a decent amount of live poker. Aside from really obvious stuff (like value-towning the fish, etc.), what major adjustments do you make when playing live?
09-12-2008 , 05:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kos13
How many minutes/hours a day do you spend on 2+2?
Way too many. When I was working on my thesis I had to block my access to 2p2 just so could get some work done.

Quote:
How many minutes/hours a day do you spend playing poker?
Not nearly enough. When playing cash games I usually play a few 1-2 hour sessions a day, more if I'm stuck . As soon as I notice I'm losing focus I take a "short break" that usually turns into a few hours of playing Mario Kart or Guitar Hero and then reading 2p2.

Quote:
Worst downswing of your poker career?
I've been pretty fortunate as far as downswings are concerned. My worst cash downswing has only been around 20 buy-ins, which I know for some players is like 1 day of variance. I'm not looking forward to worse swings that are bound to occur.

As for tournaments, 95% of tournament play is a downswing with the occasional huge upswong.

Quote:
It sounds like you play a decent amount of live poker. Aside from really obvious stuff (like value-towning the fish, etc.), what major adjustments do you make when playing live?
I don't really play that much live so I probably don't have any good info for you. Also, I don't have a lot of time to answer this question right now, so I'll get back to it later.
09-12-2008 , 06:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Proofrock
I also like the Hollow Men, the Wasteland, and the cat poems. The Love Song is my favorite, though, partly because it took me so long to finally get and then I realized it described my indecisive tendencies perfectly.

It's wonderful to find a poem or song that makes you want to meet its "friends." I mean, Prufrock is responsible for me reading The Inferno and Hamlet, both of which add so much to the poem just by having been written and alluded to in the poem, and both of which have had a meaningful impact on me.

Another example I'd have is the Hank Williams III song "Country Heroes" -- I've never been a big country fan, but that song is responsible for me searching out Merle Haggard, George Jones, and Waylon Jennings, all of whom I think are great songwriters.
the wasteland > prufrock imo...but eliot's the man. i'm not a big modernist guy, but i'm an english grad student and we have to hype it up to our students quite a bit.
09-12-2008 , 06:44 PM
you seem like a very intelligent and cool guy.
Can't think of any good questions, but I'll say I like all the poems posted. I also liked BT2's vampire question, you could glean a lot about someone based on their response IMO.
09-13-2008 , 02:01 PM
whats your favorite tv series

can you share who the top 3 people youve won $ off of are, and the top 3 youve lost are
09-13-2008 , 02:50 PM
Can you beat Through the Fire and Flames on expert?
09-13-2008 , 04:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ship_it_trebek
Can you beat Through the Fire and Flames on expert?
Dear Lord no. I've 5-starred every song on expert except Raining Blood (4-star) with 6-7 FCs. I haven't even completed TTFAF -- never seemed worth it to put in that much time practicing the opening sequence ...
09-13-2008 , 04:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by too eazy
whats your favorite tv series
Arrested Development. Even though it's no longer on I still watch it weekly.

Quote:
can you share who the top 3 people youve won $ off of are, and the top 3 youve lost are
Biggest Winners from:
VawlsFan
pattay
pokerraja

Biggest Losers to:
dogshark
Marccus
zekulya

If you just look at players I've played more than 100 pots with then it becomes:

Biggest winners from:
pattay
Keli
studboy

Biggest losers to:
phluxer
pianospike
billzfan (I spew way too much into his overpairs. He should be up more but I suck out sometimes).
09-13-2008 , 04:44 PM
Not sure if this has been answered yet but what's your favorite TV show?
09-13-2008 , 04:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by speedle
Not sure if this has been answered yet but what's your favorite TV show?
speedle -- that's a great question! Favorite TV show is FoxNews. I have it playing in the background 24/7.
09-13-2008 , 11:57 PM
As a fellow nit/variance-hater, what do you think are the most important skills/mindsets you need to develop to play in games as aggressive as they are today without getting run over?
09-14-2008 , 01:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by punish15
As a fellow nit/variance-hater, what do you think are the most important skills/mindsets you need to develop to play in games as aggressive as they are today without getting run over?
Good question. I'm not sure how much I can help because what I'm going to say will probably be pretty vague, but:

You need to kill your inner nit. Poker is inherently a game of variance. Don't make avoiding variance a priority. Being overly risk-averse keeps you from considering all of your options and hinders your ability to make the most +EV play. In order to survive in more aggressive plays you need to be able to make some moves when the situation dictates -- if you don't your winrate will severely suffer. As your winrate goes down, variance will go up. Worrying about variance ironically may inadvertently increase it. You must overpower your inner nit and constantly look for the most +EV moves.

Some skills I find important:

(1) Game selection. Don't let your ego get in the way of your winrate. If you want to play in a tough game for reasons other than to make money, then go for it. But if you're looking to be most profitable, make sure you play in games with weak players. Every 10-20 hands or so I scan the tables. If there aren't at least 1-2 obvious weak spots I sit out and find another table. I especially like tables where I have position on the fish, at least when I'm in the HJ, CO and Button.

If you're playing against reasonably competent players, even straightforward ABC TAGs, you'll usually have at best a small edge which will result in a variance-fest of dubious EV. It may be good for honing your skills, but you can hone your skills battling regs at tables with bad players too.

Most of the reg battles I get involved in are either directly or indirectly battles for a shot at bad players' stacks. Think about this.

(2) Don't let yourself get run over. You need to 3-bet more often, and be prepared to defend against 3-bets. You can defend by adding more 4-bets when you think Villain's range is wide (either 4-bet bluffing or for value depending on history). When you feel like you're getting played back but aren't comfortable widening your 4-bet range at tighten up your opening range so you'll be naturally 4-betting more often when you do get 3-bet.

If you are getting run over and can't combat it, find another game and while away from the tables try to figure out how you were being exploited, how to use this to exploit others and to keep yourself from being exploited in the future. Don't let your ego hurt your results -- use your bruised ego to become a stronger player. This away from the game analysis is crucial to improving your game more quickly and completely than playing alone.

(3) When making moves, you may be better off making relatively small, high percentage moves that won't cost you too much if they don't work but can put your opponent to a big decision. You don't need to make huge 3-barrel bluffs with air -- the bigger you build the pot the tighter Villain's range becomes and the riskier the move.
09-14-2008 , 05:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Proofrock
I'm interested in what notes you have on me .

I have to say, I only have something like 400 hands in my db with you and nothing particular stands out. I remember there was one hand where I smooth-called your raise w/AK, I think to keep a bad player in the pot, and then just checked down on a KJ9Qx board where I felt like a total nit . Overall it looks like you're up $16 on me, so way to go!

So yeah, I have nothing much to say about your game -- sorry . Generally, I don't get too involved in battling with TAG regulars like yourself. I do it as much as I need to, but I don't exactly look for spots to get into pots with you because I don't see a ton of value in it.
just checked it - havn't got notes on you

i think there's anyone with a very similiar screenname out there
09-14-2008 , 09:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Proofrock
Good question. I'm not sure how much I can help because what I'm going to say will probably be pretty vague, but:

You need to kill your inner nit. Poker is inherently a game of variance. Don't make avoiding variance a priority. Being overly risk-averse keeps you from considering all of your options and hinders your ability to make the most +EV play. In order to survive in more aggressive plays you need to be able to make some moves when the situation dictates -- if you don't your winrate will severely suffer. As your winrate goes down, variance will go up. Worrying about variance ironically may inadvertently increase it. You must overpower your inner nit and constantly look for the most +EV moves.

Some skills I find important:

(1) Game selection. Don't let your ego get in the way of your winrate. If you want to play in a tough game for reasons other than to make money, then go for it. But if you're looking to be most profitable, make sure you play in games with weak players. Every 10-20 hands or so I scan the tables. If there aren't at least 1-2 obvious weak spots I sit out and find another table. I especially like tables where I have position on the fish, at least when I'm in the HJ, CO and Button.

If you're playing against reasonably competent players, even straightforward ABC TAGs, you'll usually have at best a small edge which will result in a variance-fest of dubious EV. It may be good for honing your skills, but you can hone your skills battling regs at tables with bad players too.

Most of the reg battles I get involved in are either directly or indirectly battles for a shot at bad players' stacks. Think about this.

(2) Don't let yourself get run over. You need to 3-bet more often, and be prepared to defend against 3-bets. You can defend by adding more 4-bets when you think Villain's range is wide (either 4-bet bluffing or for value depending on history). When you feel like you're getting played back but aren't comfortable widening your 4-bet range at tighten up your opening range so you'll be naturally 4-betting more often when you do get 3-bet.

If you are getting run over and can't combat it, find another game and while away from the tables try to figure out how you were being exploited, how to use this to exploit others and to keep yourself from being exploited in the future. Don't let your ego hurt your results -- use your bruised ego to become a stronger player. This away from the game analysis is crucial to improving your game more quickly and completely than playing alone.

(3) When making moves, you may be better off making relatively small, high percentage moves that won't cost you too much if they don't work but can put your opponent to a big decision. You don't need to make huge 3-barrel bluffs with air -- the bigger you build the pot the tighter Villain's range becomes and the riskier the move.

wow, just a real high quality post. Thanks very much for that and for this well
09-15-2008 , 03:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AGx19
Donkey Kong...he keeps it classy

what kart do u play
SNES was my favorite Mario Kart game by far, but Mario Kart Wii has been rocking me pretty hard.

For time trial mode I'm usually Bowser with the Flame-whatever bike.

For racing I prefer Dry Bones with the Bullet Bike or Peach with whatever bike corresponds to the Bullet Bike.

I'm 75% of the way through 3-starring the grand prix races -- 150cc mirror is killing me with a never-ending string of 2-stars ...
09-16-2008 , 03:24 PM
I've grinded up to 200NL FR & I've taken a sidetrip down variance lane by playing 100NL 6m, 50NL HU, & (too much) 50-100PLO hi for the past few months.

Now I need to grind more FR for my bankroll. But before leaping right back in, I want to take a little time and "retool". So I've got a few ??'s for you.

1. What do you do to review after a session to make sure you are playing your A-game?

2. How did you: (a) identify; and (b) correct the major leaks in your game?

3. How do you keep those leaks from creeping back into your game?

4. I've got a fairly big sample of 100 NL FR & 6m hands. How should I analyze this data to identify the strengths/weaknesses in my game?

Thanks in advance!!!!
09-16-2008 , 04:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by r2me
I've grinded up to 200NL FR & I've taken a sidetrip down variance lane by playing 100NL 6m, 50NL HU, & (too much) 50-100PLO hi for the past few months.
PLO high is owning me so hard right now. If anybody has suggestions for profitable 6-max PLO feel free to let me know ...

Quote:
Now I need to grind more FR for my bankroll. But before leaping right back in, I want to take a little time and "retool". So I've got a few ??'s for you.
That's what I'm here for .

Quote:
1. What do you do to review after a session to make sure you are playing your A-game?
The bare minimum of post-session review involves me going over all of the big pots I played (whether I won or lost them) and analyzing the action. I ask myself questions at each decision point such as:

(a) Why did I just take this action? What hands do I expect Villain to call, raise, or fold with?

(b) What is Villain's range given the action that has occurred thus far?

(c) What am I representing?

(d) What better decisions could I have made in the hand?

(e) (If it went to showdown) Given his exact hand, what would my perfect play have been? Given his range, what was my best play?

Using pokerstove and doing some EV calculations will often be helpful during these reviews, especially when you're trying to determine if bluffing is going to be profitable.

It doesn't take long to do this at the end of a session and often exposes spots where you made a play and don't know why, or where a better course of action was available that you didn't consider at the table. A lot of the time you'll just end up saying "set over set, nothing interesting here" but doing this each session you will certainly find ways to improve.

Quote:
2. How did you: (a) identify; and (b) correct the major leaks in your game?
To identify: Watching videos from a video training site helped a lot. If you have a competent friend to sweat sessions I expect that helps a lot to (I don't have any friends so I can't verify this).

If you have a large PokerTracker sample of hands, this post will help you use PokerTracker to look for leaks in your game. I recommend doing a PokerTracker review at least once a month.

To correct:
First you need to identify a leak.

Then spend some time away from the tables trying to figure out how to correct those leaks. Post your ideas on 2p2 or discuss them with another player whose game you respect.

Play 1-2 tables at your stakes or stakes slightly lower than your usual stakes and experiment with your ideas for correcting the leak. Some of those ideas will work, some won't but you'll gain a lot just by trying them and thinking about their effects. Often times failed experiments are more valuable than ones that work as you expected them to.

Once you feel you've found an improvement, return to your usual game and keep an eye on how the changes are affecting your game and winrate.

Leaks aren't something that you fix once and stay fixed forever. If you really want to fix leaks you need to constantly work at improving your game no matter how well you feel you're playing. Game conditions change and new leaks pop up / old leaks re-emerge all the time. You just need to keep looking for them. Sometimes all it takes is a minor tweak to make a major difference.

A lot of the times you find trouble spots when doing your post-session review -- isn't it nice how this all connects?

Quote:
3. How do you keep those leaks from creeping back into your game?
See above .

Quote:
4. I've got a fairly big sample of 100 NL FR & 6m hands. How should I analyze this data to identify the strengths/weaknesses in my game?
Start by using the link above (from my response to your question 2) and go from there.

Quote:
Thanks in advance!!!!
Thanks for asking such good questions about such an important topic. Hope my response helps.
09-17-2008 , 03:23 AM
Good well. Will read again.
09-22-2008 , 12:44 AM
This well rocked! Thanks again so much!
09-23-2008 , 09:56 PM
Why were you playing 200nl tonight?
09-23-2008 , 10:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zachvac
Why were you playing 200nl tonight?
Because I enjoy slowly torturing myself? (I never win as much at 1/2 as I do at 2/4 or higher, but it's a comfortable place to play when for some reason you want to play in a comfortable game)


Actually, here are some reasons I sometimes play $1/2:

(a) I'm trying something new with my game (currently trying to get better at 12+ tabling, because at the moment I feel most comfortable 6-8 tabling).

(b) I'm not feeling focused enough to play $2/4+ but I still want to play.

(c) The $1/2 games sometimes look better than then $2/4 games.

(d) If I've been running bad at higher limits I'll drop down for a few days or a week until I feel mentally prepared to move back up.

(e) Other.

------------------

As an aside, if you look for me at the tables this month you may also find me playing:

$0.5/1 PLO because as far as I can tell I'm either terrible at that game or I'm just really bad at flipping and I hate not being able to beat a game.

limit o/8
razz
stud
stud/8

because I want to learn to play those games well too.
09-23-2008 , 11:08 PM
watch some PLO videos if you have a subscription to any training sites. DC has some GREAT starter vids for PLO.

also playing 50plo HU and just playing like 70% of your hands forces you to pick up spots fairly quickly.
09-23-2008 , 11:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Proofrock

(c) The $1/2 games sometimes look better than then $2/4 games.
wat
09-24-2008 , 12:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrandMelon
wat
I think he means "The 1/2 games sometimes look nearly twice as good as the 2/4 games." or something of that nature

      
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