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07-25-2014 , 11:29 AM

#76

tobe4funas

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 5,661

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeleaB

Both were fish. I'm not keen on flatting if opener was a reg.

lol
u shoulkdve mentioned that, agree w/ flatting now way more

07-25-2014 , 11:48 AM

#77

Sebastian37

old hand

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 1,365

Quote:

Originally Posted by tobe4funas

lol
u shoulkdve mentioned that, agree w/ flatting now way more

+1, I still think I like a 4bet better but if both fish, I like call much more now.

07-25-2014 , 12:19 PM

#78

Barry Urinstein

veteran

Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 2,445

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sebastian37

He is BB, so he would OOP. I don't think flatting is awful here and if we were to btn, then flatting probably better than flatting OOP. I just think AQs isn't going to play great OOP without the initiative vs most likely 2 players plus if villain 2 is any good, I could see him putting in a big 4bet himself as considering we don't close action.

Most likely outcome is only SB calls his 4b, then he'd be IP.
Rest of your post I don't understand.

07-25-2014 , 12:20 PM

#79

Onemorecrack

journeyman

Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 304

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeleaB

I think players over-estimate the value of 3- and 4-betting certain hands in spots like this versus bad players. Either way, whether they out-weigh the benefits of bloating the pot pre-flop or not, there are- I think- without doubt several merits to choosing to just call pre that are at least worthy of consideration but most seem to ignore.

AQs does not have a massive equity advantage over villain's range. Much of the value of this hand against most opponents comes from fold equity and not allowing villain to realise his equity. That value is reduced versus certain player types who have a high WTSD, whereas the value of other similar strength hands (such as JJ) increases against these players and are much better hands to 3-/4-bet with.

Imagine that your opponent knows you have AK/AQ once you have raised them pre, and plays his hand accordingly. That is pretty much how lots of these fish play their range, so actually having those hands isn't as +EV as you may imagine. (E.g. Every day you 3-bet, fish calls, you triple barrel on Txxxx with KK and they call you down with QT, and those hands perfectly demonstrate that fact.)

The main advantage though is that these big fish allow you to lose small pots when you're beaten and to bloat the pot quickly when you're ahead, so you can risk very little to win their stack.

+1

I think is really +EV vs fishes, once you hit, they can call you with really weak hands even 3 barrels...

Btw, 4betting this spot is also +EV too, but I prefer "just calling preflop"

07-25-2014 , 12:37 PM

#80

ybeiebay

newbie

Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry Urinstein

Against "russian whale" we have "massive equity advantage over villain's range" and everything with regards to "imagine that your opponent knows..." pretty much flies out the window, because "russian whale", lol.

+1

From my experience, average post-USSR fish (except Bellorusians) are way more fishy than avg fish from other countries with a lot of players.

07-25-2014 , 01:39 PM

#81

hurtNCYDE

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 2,358

Belgian, Swiss and Australian whales are much better than a lot of the Russians from my experience. And I literally don't think I recall ever seeing a Belarusian whale.

07-25-2014 , 01:48 PM

#82

CRP90

old hand

Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 1,920

lmao @ at there being Australian whales, they are all nits or bosses.

07-25-2014 , 02:23 PM

#83

woolly

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 3,107

Quote:

Originally Posted by ybeiebay

+1

From my experience, average post-USSR fish (except Bellorusians) are way more fishy than avg fish from other countries with a lot of players.

belgium

07-25-2014 , 02:44 PM

#84

AAwasmyLIFE

banned

Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 171

1. china

07-25-2014 , 04:32 PM

#85

MeleaB

See my Commercial Software thread

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 5,395

Vs another Russian Whale just now:

It's hard to fold a flush.

Poker Stars, $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #29121371

ceedonen (UTG): $103.55 (103.6 bb)
Smail17 (MP): $121.79 (121.8 bb)
emisavoia (CO): $105.91 (105.9 bb)
l3xan (BTN): $118.98 (119 bb)
ILoveYou77 (SB): $330.52 (330.5 bb)
Hero (BB): $111.50 (111.5 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K

4 folds, ILoveYou77 raises to $2, Hero raises to $8, ILoveYou77 calls $6

Flop: ($16) K

(2 players)
ILoveYou77 bets $10, Hero calls $10

Turn: ($36) 8

(2 players)
ILoveYou77 bets $15, Hero calls $15

River: ($66) K

(2 players)
ILoveYou77 bets $10, Hero raises to $78.50 and is all-in, ILoveYou77 calls $68.50

Results: $223 pot ($2.80 rake)
Final Board: K

ILoveYou77 showed 5

and lost (-$111.50 net)
Hero showed K

and won $220.20 ($108.70 net)

Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.

07-26-2014 , 03:14 AM

#86

Pinkmann

Guest

Posts: n/a

We should have a thread with hilarious hands vs fish. Obv not posting screen names, sites etc

07-26-2014 , 03:59 AM

#87

TonnaMunz

Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 2,759

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRP90

lmao @ at there being Australian whales, they are all nits or bosses.

lol if u see an Aussie on stars it's a whale near 100% of the time, very very few are regs/crushers and then the rest are the lovely worthless passive fish who will type racist s**t in chat after the euros cooler them

Spoiler:

07-26-2014 , 04:25 AM

#88

woolly

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 3,107

oh joy

and since may

all at the hundo

07-26-2014 , 04:41 AM

#89

MeleaB

See my Commercial Software thread

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 5,395

From a few moment ago.

Pre-empting comments of "lead flop", a large over-bet c/r has a much better chance of building a pot here, so f*ck off.

Poker Stars, $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 7 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #29130521

Hero (SB): $111.32 (111.3 bb)
c$shmoney87 (BB): $100 (100 bb)
ManyaVanya (MP1): $103.71 (103.7 bb)
Crazyfish87 (MP2): $103.30 (103.3 bb)
daiduong11 (MP3): $124.63 (124.6 bb)
zErasyl (CO): $104.66 (104.7 bb)
boshic (BTN): $41.50 (41.5 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 5

2 folds, daiduong11 calls $1, 2 folds, Hero completes, c$shmoney87 checks

Flop: ($3) 2

(3 players)
Hero checks, c$shmoney87 checks, daiduong11 checks

Turn: ($3) A

(3 players)
Hero checks, c$shmoney87 checks, daiduong11 checks

River: ($3) 9

(3 players)
Hero bets $2, c$shmoney87 folds, daiduong11 calls $2

Results: $7 pot ($0.32 rake)
Final Board: 2

Hero showed 5

and won $6.68 ($3.68 net)
c$shmoney87 mucked and lost (-$1 net)
daiduong11 mucked 4

and lost (-$3 net)

Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.

07-26-2014 , 04:54 AM

#90

Slugant

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 7,137

they really give u credit for huge hands melea

07-26-2014 , 05:08 AM

#91

TonnaMunz

Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 2,759

play more hands woollyy beb, i just looked at my since may and has 80k hands losing at the start

Spoiler:

07-26-2014 , 05:09 AM

#92

woolly

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 3,107

PokerStars - $1 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

CRAZY_YEHOOO (CO): $104.33
xboost165x (BTN): $268.36

K0nstantinus (SB): $203.53
Woollyyy (BB): $100.00

snwmn88 (UTG): $250.29
danuuutz (MP): $100.00

K0nstantinus posts SB $0.50, Woollyyy posts BB $1.00

Pre Flop: (pot: $1.50) Woollyyy has 8

fold, fold, CRAZY_YEHOOO raises to $3.00, xboost165x calls $3.00, fold, Woollyyy calls $2.00

Flop: ($9.50, 3 players) 5

Woollyyy checks, CRAZY_YEHOOO checks, xboost165x bets $4.00, Woollyyy calls $4.00, fold

Turn: ($17.50, 2 players) A

Woollyyy checks, xboost165x bets $5.00, Woollyyy calls $5.00

River: ($27.50, 2 players) Q

Woollyyy checks, xboost165x bets $4.00, Woollyyy raises to $87.00

xboost165x calls $83.00

Spoiler:

07-26-2014 , 05:29 AM

#93

hurtNCYDE

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 2,358

Never thought I'd see the day where danuuutz was sitting at a 6max table

07-26-2014 , 05:36 AM

#94

woolly

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 3,107

Quote:

Originally Posted by hurtNCYDE

Never thought I'd see the day where danuuutz was sitting at a 6max table

Spoiler:

07-26-2014 , 08:27 AM

#95

MeleaB

See my Commercial Software thread

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 5,395

A fun morning of tilt and spewing off stacks to regs playing slightly less badly than me.

c$shmoney87, where did you get your horseshoe from, and was it difficult shoving it up your arse?

07-26-2014 , 08:48 AM

#96

Slugant

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 7,137

gl all

07-26-2014 , 10:13 AM

#97

RKi v2

grinder

Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 663

Nice to see the official noose being used.

07-26-2014 , 11:41 AM

#98

Sebastian37

old hand

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 1,365

Well I might as well b@tch a little bit too. Though in all honesty, I am in a really good mood and very happy with my poker.

[X] Decent winrate for the month
[X] Losing money for the month

07-26-2014 , 12:33 PM

#99

MeleaB

See my Commercial Software thread

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 5,395

Bitch away, that's allowed in this thread. That being said, as poorly as I'm been running, and as much as I can claim others have run well against me, at the end of the day I've been playing embarrassingly badly at times.

07-27-2014 , 09:37 PM

#100

raradevils

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 8,189

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeleaB

Bitch away, that's allowed in this thread. That being said, as poorly as I'm been running, and as much as I can claim others have run well against me, at the end of the day I've been playing embarrassingly badly at times.

I don't believe it, not you?

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