Dat HUD..

+1

And windows

too late for goals?

[ ] come back to england
[ ] not get married
[ ] have >$1 to name when returning home

How to Slow Play 101

by a Russian Whale

His very first (and only) hand:

Nice! Surely pre is a clear 4bet though?

I know many would probably agree with that but I feel I can often play more profitably against big fish by flatting in these types of spots.

Obviously our stronger range, better position, and increased skill set is why people would advocate 4-betting, but it also restricts us in other ways too. Most whales (as in this example) allow you to keep the pot small- and lose very little- when our hand is 2nd best while also allowing us to over inflate it when our hand is best. A larger SPR obviously favours the better player, and my post-flop edge is going to be massive and far greater than my pre-flop edge. Also I think big non-pair hands lose some value against fish compared to versus regs. Flatting also allows him to bluff away on Ace-high flops which he will fold on if we 4-bet, etc. etc.

In short: I like small ball strat vs big fish.

big skillset in big pot > big skillset in small pot though
having a fish c/f in 4b pot is arguably more bb/100 than winning that stack once in a while
dunno tho

Having trouble coming up with reasons not to 4b there, tbh.

Its MeleaB. That's reason enough surely.

4betting a crap suited hand against an unknown fish or 2 unknown fish sounds like a very good play...

[x] Q A is now a crap suited hand

+1

i mean like maybe if min 3betting fish has super low 3bet and pfr and other fish is bigger flatting could be better

Had a fun one today

How to Slow Play 102

by Spazzy Whale


PokerStars - $2 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 2 players


TonnaMunz (BB): $200.00
Alexis.li (SB): $200.00

Alexis.li posts SB $1.00, TonnaMunz posts BB $2.00

Pre Flop: (pot: $3.00) TonnaMunz has 9 7

Alexis.li raises to $4.00, TonnaMunz calls $2.00

Flop: ($8.00, 2 players) 6 3 5
TonnaMunz checks, Alexis.li checks

Turn: ($8.00, 2 players) 8
TonnaMunz bets $8.00, Alexis.li calls $8.00

River: ($24.00, 2 players) Q
TonnaMunz checks, Alexis.li bets $188.00 and is all-in, TonnaMunz calls $188.00 and is all-in

Alexis.li shows 4 A (Flush, Ace High)

TonnaMunz shows 9 7 (Straight, Nine High)

Alexis.li wins $399.50

Lool ! Nice shove in to $24 pot

Thin valuebetting here

If we were the initial raiser and got min 3bet, I think a flat is fine but considering that there is another player, I like a 4bet to iso the guy who min 3bet especially OOP and especially so short handed.

I think players over-estimate the value of 3- and 4-betting certain hands in spots like this versus bad players. Either way, whether they out-weigh the benefits of bloating the pot pre-flop or not, there are- I think- without doubt several merits to choosing to just call pre that are at least worthy of consideration but most seem to ignore.

AQs does not have a massive equity advantage over villain's range. Much of the value of this hand against most opponents comes from fold equity and not allowing villain to realise his equity. That value is reduced versus certain player types who have a high WTSD, whereas the value of other similar strength hands (such as JJ) increases against these players and are much better hands to 3-/4-bet with.

Imagine that your opponent knows you have AK/AQ once you have raised them pre, and plays his hand accordingly. That is pretty much how lots of these fish play their range, so actually having those hands isn't as +EV as you may imagine. (E.g. Every day you 3-bet, fish calls, you triple barrel on Txxxx with KK and they call you down with QT, and those hands perfectly demonstrate that fact.)

The main advantage though is that these big fish allow you to lose small pots when you're beaten and to bloat the pot quickly when you're ahead, so you can risk very little to win their stack.

I think you nailed it. The best possible outcome is that they fold which is +++++++EV. Worst case if they call, we still usually are ahead of fishes range plus it is going to be so hard for him to play his small and med PP that he calls with plus I think we are going to have many reverse implied odds spots with better Ax vs fish. So best case they fold worse case they call and we are most likely ahead of his range.

I was going by the information given in your initial post (i.e. "russian whale"). Against "russian whale" we have "massive equity advantage over villain's range" and everything with regards to "imagine that your opponent knows..." pretty much flies out the window, because "russian whale", lol.
You 4b: You're IP vs. whale with a great hand, being the far better player with SPR that favours you etc...
You flat: You're vs. 2 players, only one of which you have position on and you allow them to realize equity etc...
On top of that, we don't even need a "massive equity advantage" for 4-betting being the best play, you are only advocating a low-variance/small-ball approach. This situation, given the information we have, is as clear-cut as it is in Razz when you get dealt A23... You're ahead of villain (i.e. his range), so you cap the betting (i.e. you 4b).

IMHO

fold

To be clear, I'm not saying raising isn't a +EV option, of course. I understand all of the plus points. I just think many way underestimate the positives from just calling.

"On top of that, we don't even need a "massive equity advantage" for 4-betting being the best play"

The reason I mentioned a lack of "massive equity advantage" was simply to highlight how those hands diminish in value versus certain player types. I wasn't saying that was a reason not to 4-bet.

"with regards to "imagine that your opponent knows..." pretty much flies out the window"

Again, to clarify, I agree these players know very little. That doesn't mean that they don't play unlike someone would play their range if that someone knew you had AK/AQ- thereby reducing the value of those holdings.

He is BB, so he would OOP. I don't think flatting is awful here and if we were to btn, then flatting probably better than flatting OOP. I just think AQs isn't going to play great OOP without the initiative vs most likely 2 players plus if villain 2 is any good, I could see him putting in a big 4bet himself as considering we don't close action.

Both were fish. I'm not keen on flatting if opener was a reg.