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100nl FR - AK in 3b pot BvB (3 parts) 100nl FR - AK in 3b pot BvB (3 parts)

12-24-2007 , 02:17 AM
Villain is 20/17/3 over 232 all at FR.

Full Tilt Poker $0.50/$1.00 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

UTG: $93.50
UTG+1: $161.70
UTG+2: $15.20
MP1: $392.90
MP2: $18.50
CO: $28.35
BTN: $37.60
SB: $135.40
Hero (BB): $153.35

Pre Flop: Hero is BB with A K
7 folds, SB raises to $3, Hero raises to $12, SB calls $9

Flop: ($24.00) K 8 3 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero .....


What the move here? If I bet what hands call on this flop in a 3b pot?
12-24-2007 , 02:25 AM
Just because a K is out there, doesn't mean he won't call w/ a lot of holdings here, including worse 1 pair hands, worse Kings, tons of FD's, and maybe even make ill advised plays w/ who knows what holdings.

Villain has an agressive image and this is a bvb confrontation, I think we can can count on him to put action in these spots sometimes and if not this time certainly other times.

However, you need to be cbetting here w/ your strong hands so that you can also be cbetting here w/ your weak hands on boards like this.

Vs good thinking agressive players, not everything is in a vacuum...
12-24-2007 , 02:27 AM
Bet $17. Given his numbers and that this is bvb, he probably doesn't (and shouldn't) fold QQ or JJ here if he has them. He obviously at least calls any King or flush draw. Ideally, he'll raise the flop, which we'll tank-call and then insta-call a shove on any turn.
12-24-2007 , 02:33 AM
$16 or $18 post the next part asap please.
12-24-2007 , 02:51 AM
Flop: ($24.00) K 8 3 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($24.00) 6 (2 players)
SB bets $13.90, Hero.....

Tried to make it not so blatantly obv that I had AK when I 3b pre and fire the K hi flop. As far as the flush draw being a possibility it's pretty unlikely imo. He's got some sort of pair here most of the time to raise and call a 3b oop.

Huge mistake or acceptable deception given the 3b pot? What the move on this turn?
12-24-2007 , 02:55 AM
call, the flop check is pretty brutal imo. If he has 1 pair here you only get one street of value anyways.
12-24-2007 , 02:57 AM
Ok so say he's got 99 for example. He calls a flop bet. Does he call a turn bet with the hammer of the river bet waiting?
12-24-2007 , 03:00 AM
Are you not betting this flop with QQ-99 and AQ as well here? If you are c-betting enough, then I don't think villain can narrow your range to AK exactly with a flop bet here. With the flop check, I'd call here.
12-24-2007 , 03:06 AM
I am, but my opponent doesn't have to know that. I want to bet for a # of reasons with 99-QQ and AQ on this flop, expecting a fold on this dry of a flop in a 3b pot. In this specific spot I am almost always far ahead, so I'd like to make the fact I have AK a little less obv and deal with the pot from the turn on, I just think I made a huge mistake by not raising the turn like I have a FD or MP.
12-24-2007 , 03:08 AM
Turn: ($24.00) 6 (2 players)
SB bets $13.90, Hero calls $13.90

River: ($51.80) 2 (2 players)
SB bets $34.50, Hero......

Can I raise now? What does he think I can call a turn bet and then a 35 into 50 river bet with? I think this agg of a villain BvB could be bluffing me here with my weak post-flop line. So I don't know how many hands he could have that calls a raise which I beat. Though I feel a little sick by just calling. What's the best decision here?
12-24-2007 , 03:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 0524432
Ok so say he's got 99 for example. He calls a flop bet. Does he call a turn bet with the hammer of the river bet waiting?
ummm...probably not, but is he going to be vbetting this river anyways or c/c it? Its a 1 street of value thing most times. Sometimes you can check the turn and get river value. Sometimes when you cbet they make a play on you too and thats really the only hope for big money if he has like 99.
12-24-2007 , 03:14 AM
As played how possible do you think it is for him to have 99 at showdown?
12-24-2007 , 03:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 0524432
As played how possible do you think it is for him to have 99 at showdown?
probably really possible since you keep mentioning it . I think he calls at least one street with 99 if you cbet though if he really is bad enough to show up with it here.
12-24-2007 , 03:23 AM
lol as I was typing it again, esp in the way I did, I thought you might think that. I'm really sick at the way this hand resulted. What is my biggest mistake? IMO, I should have made some sort of raise on the turn. With a Khi FD to back me up in the very unlikely event that he shows up with a made flush here. A little more likely than that, he has a Kx hand and can't get away from it on the turn putting me on a MP or semi-bluffing a big FD. Most likely IMO, he himself has a MP and will make a massive mistake on the turn getting himself to believe I'm using a big FD to push him off his hand on the turn (considering my 3b pre and flop line) or just some kind of stone cold bluff.


River: ($51.80) 2 (2 players)
SB bets $34.50, Hero calls $34.50

Spoiler:
Final Pot: $120.80
SB shows Th Ks (a pair of Kings)
Hero shows As Kd (a pair of Kings)
Hero wins $117.80
(Rake: $3.00)
12-24-2007 , 04:09 AM
thats why you bet the flop here. You just can't stack a hand like 99 most of the time and if you can he will raise you with it on the flop anyways if he was gonna give you 3 strrets of value.
12-24-2007 , 02:27 PM
Thanks CDL
12-24-2007 , 10:04 PM
Like everyone else mentioned, not betting the flop was the mistake here. Since you're going to be c-betting here 95% of the time when checked to no matter what you have, you have to bet when you hit just like you would when you haven't. By doing that, the pot is going be a bit bigger throughout, and I'd still be shocked if you didn't get 3 streets of value here.
12-25-2007 , 01:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by moldman
and I'd still be shocked if you didn't get 3 streets of value here.
Results oriented imo but yes thanks, checking flop was probably a mistake, even considering the attempt to not rep AK+. Longrun betting flop is the best decision.
12-25-2007 , 03:50 PM
Ususally I bet the flop, but sometimes I'll check behind on the flop, and then call any turn if villain bets, and bet any turn if villain checks. Vs some villains, I will make more over the course of the hand by checking the flop to make it look like the K is an overcard that scared me. The diamond draw isn't too scary since I have Kd, leaving only 8 diamonds left, and I will have a redraw to a K-high flush if the turn is a diamond.

But, by default, betting out and seeing where the hand goes is usually best, especially if you bet without a pair frequently. In those cases, you need to bet out with the pair sometimes.

As for the rest of the hand, I think you should call the turn, and call the river. So, once you checked the flop, I thought the rest of the hand played out pretty well. I don't think he'd have called the turn or river if you'd raised.
12-26-2007 , 03:01 PM
This line wins the least when you have AK and loses you the most when you have JJ. C-bets are like gold, people.

      
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