ok so villain here is CDL, our history is pretty well defined by him in other post. line check me, is this spew?

Poker Stars $2.00/$4.00 No Limit Hold'em - 7 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BTN: $442.80
SB: $387.05
Hero (BB): $789.50
UTG: $398.00
UTG+1: $402.00
MP: $432.20
CO: $462.70

Pre Flop: Hero is BB with Q A
2 folds, MP raises to $16, 3 folds, Hero calls $12

Flop: ($34.00) Q 4 J (2 players)
Hero bets $28, MP raises to $78, Hero raises to $188, MP raises to $416.20 all in, Hero calls $228.20

Turn: ($866.40) 7 (2 players - 1 is all in)

River: ($866.40) 5 (2 players - 1 is all in)

Can't say I like this. I don't know CDL at all aside from his posts (which I'm assuming don't apply well to this situation because of your history), but just given the action, I don't think you're ahead of the range he 4bets you with here even if you like to play games with each other.

What's his range?

AA,KK,QQ,JJ are all possible. x% chance for now.

TT-55? AK? Not likely. He would need to think he has significant FE to 4bet TT here, and he's likely to realise you've committed yourself with the flop 3bet, so he doesn't have much FE at all. 5%

44 is possible, but dependent on how likely he is to have open-raised a low PP from MP. Without knowing his play, let's make it a possibility. 5%

QK? Possible, but also not likely. You might 3bet the flop with less than a weak top pair, but it's not going to be a large enough part of your range to make this profitable. 5%

QJ? Possible. Will he open-raise it from MP? I think quite possible. 10%

9T/KT? Consistent with both the open-raise, and consistent with the flop raise. He may feel that after your 3bet, he's getting ~3:1 on his money, and that's roughly what he needs with 8 outs, and that the metagame value from a push with an average draw here makes up the deficit. Definitely possible. 15%

AQ? Yup, same reasoning as you. Not very likely, both because you have it, and because some of the reasons I argue here apply to his side of the hand as well. Definitely possible though. 5%

Random junk? Yeah, but not likely without him seriously overestimating his FE in the heat of the moment. 5%

That totals 50%. and leaves 50% for the overpairs + top two sets part of his range. This feels a little large, but not by a lot, and even if it's actually 35%, and I'm out by double on any of the other numbers, you're still significantly behind the majority of his range.

So, yup, looks like spew to me. Could be large or small, but still spew.

If you do like to play games with each other, I'd suggest check-calling might be the best line, regardless of the turn or river (perhaps with a value-donk if it's checked to the river, and both turn and it are blanks).

I thought this hand was really really interesting. No other thoughts?

edit: 44 and QJ definitely in my opening range and he definitely knows that.

well u have out

well i guess ur play can be good because he probably know that you would reraise AA KK QQ JJ preflop and that you would less likely Cold call a raise OOP againt him with QJ. So the Hand that you can represent pretty much is 44 or maybe AQ. So he is not foldin his KK and maybe KQ.

but im just a wanna be nl 400 winner for now so take my advice not too srsly

Stacking off here would have to be really read-dependent for me. He's shown a lot of strength multiple times in this hand, and what do you beat? Villain is not doing this with KQ or QT, and I disagree with above poster and don't see KT as a decent part of villain's range.

I think you are way behind after his first reraise, and when this happens to me, I am inevitably shown two pair or a set.

Pretty standard IMO.

I wouldn't shove this.

I don't really get the reraise to $188. Why not just call his raise? Once you reraise to $188, you pretty much have to call the rest off, right? (I'm no good at teh math!)

I really think this is impossible to answer but I'll try to talk a little bit about it anyway.

I understand what you're trying to do, make it look like a re-re-resteal on the flop, and I know that CDL is perfectly capable of not believing you and four-bet shoving AK.

Maybe, I'm wrong, but once you donk and he raises, I think CDL's range is comprised of hands that beat you, KK+, and bluffs and semibluffs (including like 4xs). That is, I don't think he raises the flop with KQ or AJ. If you donk bet and call, in all likelihood, he will give you credit for a big hand and cease bluffing. So if you were banking on him bluffing off all his loots after you donked, this is the way to go. However, the frequency with which he bluffs, or rather, decides that you have absolutely nothing and goes with that read, cannot be determined.

So in short, probably not very helpful, good if he bruffs a rot and bad if doesn't.

this is why youre my favorite strat poster.

AllTheCheese, please to be staying on FTP. I don't need that **** in my games. Sick reply though.

What he said is common sense to anyone who's played more than 50k hands in the games. Well maybe like 100k if you're not super competent.

There's nothing special or interesting about this hand its standard play vs. two aggressive players.

Hero takes donk line w/TPTK and Villain reacts aggressively! Villain says I HAVE TPTK I CANT FOLD and succeeds.

bsalifhsalikfsha.fshakjzx. Some of you got it twisted imo.

eazy i know its common sense, i just think he articulated it well. i remember when me and CDL were talking about this hand on aim right after it happened, i didnt think there was anything special at all about my line. CDL asked me to explain myself, and i couldnt, i just thought it was the right way to play it, and i think the reason i thought that was because of what i bolded in AllTheCheese's response, just thought he explained something well that i couldnt

Oh DAMN SON word???

FWIW CDL showed down ak here

His shove is awful. And before he comes in like WTF LOL YOU DON'T KNOW OUR IMAGES, I'm pretty sure pattay almost never takes this line and calls with any range you're ahead of. Even if he can make that 3-bet and fold, I think he does it with hands that he calls your shove with more often, and when he calls you're crushed.

All of this can be true and it still be correct for CDL to shove.

Board: Qc Jd 4h
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 31.306% 31.05% 00.26% 25821 213.00 { AKs }
Hand 1: 68.694% 68.44% 00.26% 56913 213.00 { JJ, 44, AQs, QJs, T9s, AQo }

The FE necessary for CDLs shove to be break even is given (I think lol) by the solution to the equation

300x + 528(.31)(1-x) - 338(.69)(1-x) = 0

Solving this gives x=.185 which means CDL only needs Pattay to fold about 19% of the time for this shove to be +EV.

That range seems pretty damn narrow, but either way, I'm pretty sure I said that Hero doesn't bet/3-bet and fold enough for AK's shove to be profitable.

I like your play here against a 2p2er especially. CDL is donktard in this hand.

I like letting him bluff the turn instead of getting in on this flop. As played I dont see what your beating unless hes shoving a straight draw here.

Do you donk bet alot?? If not, I think that shows relative strength and he still doesnt care.

i think you misread hand, preflop CDL raised from MP and i called from the BB

I think CDL played this hand very well assuming he read pattay for AQ being the top of his range. Very interesting hand imo.

Ugh.

Sorry. For some reason I thought you were SB and he was BB, you raised, and he called. Not sure how I got that impression from the thread.

I deleted my post.

Thanks.

What is CDLs preflop raise percentage? It's probably well over 8%, right? If you have AQo and you want to play it from the blinds, why not reraise preflop and bet the flop or c/r the flop rather than cold call with a hand likely to miss 2/3s of the time?

Why did you just call preflop instead of reraise?