That practice is totally standard and one I understand.

My issue is with the consistency that this technique is being applied.

If they offered a better deal to get Stox subs to sign up at CR than they offered those that already have a CR sub I wouldn't be scratching my head.

Stox and CR are apparently one legal company now, so why aren't they both offering the same low introductory rate? Existing CR members can renew their membership ($200) for less than Stox members have to pay to join CR ($255) while CR members can also join Stox for less ($155) than existing Stox members have to pay to renew ($200). Seems a much better deal for CR members than Stox members. That is what is annoying.

The reason for this is because cardrunners is/was and always has been more expensive than stoxpoker. So existing Cardrunners members have paid a larger cost for their current status.

So let them get CR for less than Stox members; I'm fine with that. I just don't see why they should get Stox membership for less than current Stox members.

I get 404 Not Found when trying to register at http://www.stoxpoker.com/registernow.php

So, your charging those who are willing to pay more a lower priced offer.
And, charging those who look for bargains and pay less a MUCH higher priced offer.

What genius came up with that business model then?

I spend my time, along with most of our coaches, mostly on simply trying to produce quality content. If that means we make business decisions that are wrong along the way then so be it. In this case I did not come up with the pricing model but I think the guys that did are very smart and that there are some things you are simply not understanding about it. Ultimately, we are currently not going to change it, so if you don't like it you can complain, but I'm not going to debate it anymore. If there are holes in it, please exploit them. good luck.

this is basically a plug for both companies...... every one form cardrunners that normally wouldnt pay extra for another site now sees STOXPOKER 55% OFF or whatever on the website and thinks oh neat ill go learn something new there at stox that i wouldnt have otherwise.and vice versa.its a lot like any other website you visit, poker related or not, they all have advirtisements (lose weight, fill surveys, grow hair etc.) this just being more poker on a poker site

after reviewing this thread all i can say is thank goodness nancy pelosi, harry reid and ted kennedy aren't involved in the stox/cr "confirmations""... lol

obv this is an attempt to price fix and eventually gouge the consumer while creating an unfair business environment for other upstart online poker teaching entities! this so-called merger/alliance wafts of an OPEC style business model and it's apparent that the price of videos will be raised, or the number of videos will be reduced ala OPEC-style to create a higher worldwide demand and artificially create higher price points which will no doubt dangerously expand the current trade deficit gap.

according to an "unidentified source" on the obama advisory staff concerning the now imposed UIGEA legislation, all of the poker sites which are allowing american players, and the online teaching business community - there are serious implications of huge windfall profit taxes being levied against these gambling affiliated sites. all punitive and unfair tax revenue generated against these entities are geared toward income redistribution to fund the social programs on the Lefts wish list. </sarcasm>

seriously... run your business the way you see fit and maximize your position at all times. there are always people, politicians and others that hate to see business and individuals make too much money, or expand too rapidly cornering a market. ask bill gates for one... and on the other side of the coin, i hope business decisions such as this one aren't greeted by punitive taxes simply because your business savvy and decision making processes are better than the average losing or stagnant company.

capitalism and free trade practices are the cornerstone of our country. make no excuse for furthering your companies and you owe no one an explanation - or rationalization for your business moves. hell, maybe obama will also include gov't sponsored "tuition" for poker schools along with college education for everybody which will silence the critics of the decision between SP and CR! lol

nice job stox and congrats to both stoxpoker and card runners!

Quick question?
If I go with CR will I be able to view Leatherass' vids?

No.

They are releasing a limited number of vids from each site on the other and some of those might be LA's, but if you want access to all of them you still need to sign up with Stox.

Cardrunners support is terrible. I've emailed them 3 times asking for a 24hr pass code and no reply whatsoever and it has been several days O_o

are you using support@cardrunners.com ?

Over the weekend response times will be slower.

So those complaining the loudest are hating on stoxpoker because they believe the site is "gouging" them to renew, or because the lead coaches at the site made a combined $5 million playing poker last year? These guys pour their heart, soul, and huge amounts of their valuable time into a site to help "you" (the aspiring amateur poker player) become successful and make $$$ at the game you love. And it just got better, because you're about to get more content, in areas "you" have been asking for, and a discount to renew because there will be so much more great content in the future.

imo this is just a matter of some people being given 5 free cookies, and others being given 7 free cookies, and some guys who got 5 saying "zomg, why didn't I get 7?"

yeah i agree... it would be great to read a thread where no one complains about pricing or tries to figure an angle to get more out of SP/CR/DC etc. for less or even nothing... imo, the price points offered are very fair, if not leaning towards the budget of the average player... the money-back guarantees are solid too.

far more should be said about complimenting the coaches for sharing their super-secret-family "cookie" recipes to begin with, rather than complaining someone else may have gotten a bit more cookie than they did. send any of these coaches a PM and see what they'd charge for personal coaching and then they'll realize what a bargain they're actually receiving by becoming a member to a top-tier poker coaching site.

dunno much about CR personally, but SP is all around top notch and i'd think CR has it's merits too. although i have no intentions of joining CR as SP meets my needs quite well for now but - maybe sometime down the road, eh?

Look, I'm not trying to be a troll or anything but the last couple of comments annoy me for a few reasons:

1. Stop pretending the coaches "pour their heart, soul, and huge amounts of their valuable time into a site to help" us, as though they didn't do it for any monetary gain and we should be eternally grateful to them. If they are only doing it to help us then why charge us? (Note - I am not saying we shouldn't be charged just stop acting like you only do it for our benefit and not your own).
2. My beef is not with being "gouged" to renew, or with the success of the coaches. And it certainly isn't about "free cookies". What it is about is being charged more for the same product from the same company than other people. I don't like that in any area of life, be it poker training sites, shops, mortgage companies, etc, etc.
3. Comparing the membership costs to coaching costs is ludicrous. Do you really think that you get the same amount of information from watching the videos as you do from personalized coaching? If that were true, why on earth would anyone pay the higher rates for coaching?

You should be glad it's only their heart and soul that they pour in, especially when your 12-month renewal fee pays for a pee break for some of the coaches

p.s. Would you really want them not to charge anything, or be incredibly cheap?

I didn't think they took pee breaks (at least one of them anyway)

No, I already said I didn't. I just don't want them to be cheaper for other people than for me.

And perhaps I should make clear that I don't have any problems with the quality of product, the coaches, or the general level of charges. I am just fed up with this deal being dressed up as being so good for everyone when in actuality more people are getting access to that same quality product for less than I am. Anyway, I hope I've made my point clear so no more trolling now, I promise.