Excellent first post! Thank you for your time

Hello All,

Sorry to revive a somewhat dead thread, but I'm looking to do this practice routine and wanted to make sure I had it right.

It appears to me that you start with Putting, then go to Pitching, etc. ("green to tee" as mentioned above) and do so in whatever time it takes you and your schedule allows. Some days I have 45 mins, some I have 2 or more hours. This may take me 2 sessions or 5 but I work them in the sequence until it's completed/achieved.

In other words, I putt until I complete all the putting games and then move on to chipping. No matter how long it takes me and if it overlaps multiple practice sessions. And then I move onto the next challenge/game in the sequence. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Is that correct?

I'm going to start working on this tonight, but is there a modified version for guys who travel a lot for work like me? Where I can get in some aspects of this without the rest of the game going rusty? I am headed out of town from June 8-12 and 17-21. I'd like to practice but not sure the work schedule will allow it and am headed to Europe, so can't bring my sticks. Would I work on one of the putting drills, then a chipping then a pitching, etc. Just pick one out of each section to at least keep the rust off?

Any and all insight and assistance is greatly appreciated.

This a great thread.

I started my 8 year old son on the routine yesterday as we are starting his preparation now for the USKG next year (if he is good enough) and I had been looking for a heavily weighted short game routine.

He loved it and also it immediately highlighted a few weak areas.

Thanks for the share.

Great routine that's certain to improve anyone's game. If nothing else, it serves to provide structure to practice sessions that would otherwise consist of hitting random shots without really having any idea what the results should be.

I've yet to try the routine, and i certainly intend to, but it seems to me that the most difficult aspect to successfully implement on the course would be the lag putting, simply because it's highly unlikely that the green speeds will remain constant at the various courses and practice facilities that are being utilized.

What are some good ways to maintain good speed control over greens with constantly varying speeds?

Just have a standard speed putt you hit on a flat area of the practice green and hit that on new courses you go to (hoping their practice green is the same as a course.) and see how far it goes in relation to where you practice. Adjust from there plus consider elevation grain ect. That is what I usually try to do anyway. I am probably a decent putter at least compared to other over 10 handicaps. Maybe one of the good golfers can jump in with what they do.

So I experimented with the UPR yesterday. Here are some results, observations, and questions.

The practice facility I used is quite elaborate, I suspect, compared to others - it has 4 putting greens, 3 bunkers and lots of open space (in addition to the driving range) for longer chips and pitches. Headed to the green nearest where I parked to tackle the 3 footers, only to discover that the miniature flags on the green weren't standing in holes - they were just stuck into the ground with pins. Fairly certain that actual holes are required to practice 3 foot putts, I decided to try some lag putts before heading over to one of the other putting greens. Paced off 20 feet, and started rolling them. After a few putts, I quickly became acclimated to the speed and was consistently rolling them to within 3 feet. I then added another 10 feet to experience some 30 foot lag putts. It was only ten additional feet, but somehow it was exponentially harder to control the speed, even along roughly the same line as the 20 footers. Not being consistent and getting frustrated, I moved to another putting green to try the 3 footers.

I must say, the 3 footers are by far the most underrated part of the UPR, in terms of difficulty (at least to me). Maybe they were more difficult than they generally are, because I did pick a hole on a noticeable slope, and placed balls at 4 points around the hole, and thus had to deal with constantly changing breaks and speeds. I couldn't complete more than 7 in a row before missing, and went to experiment with chipping.

Started chipping from the fringe 20 feet away from the same hole, which from where I was standing on the fringe required the ball to land softly on a small hill in order to have a chance to stop within 3 feet. I didn't get many (if any at all) within 3 feet, and moved back to the first (quieter) green to continue chipping.

Set up in the fringe ~60 feet away. During a round I wouldn't putt from this fringe, as it wasn't completely mown, and there was at least a little bit of grass around the ball. In trying to determine which club would be the most useful for this shot, I tinkered with a PW, 52º, and 60º. From this particular lie, and also considering that I wanted to carry the ball about 1/3 of the way to the hole and roll out the rest, I quickly discovered that the PW was most suitable.

I am fairly new to chipping, so I experimented quite a bit with stance, ball position, grip, etc. The combination of factors that allowed me to consistently strike the back of the ball for crisp contact are the following:

Choked up grip, not quite on the metal, but not much room left on the grip below my bottom hand; fairly soft loose grip; the ball in the back of my stance (I tried with the ball in various positions in my stance, and the more towards the rear the harder and lower it shoots out); and what I feel is the most important part of the setup on the chip shot is how open your feet must be in relation to the ball. For a while I was square, maybe slightly open, and I would hit it fat occasionally or shank it. Eventually I discovered that if I stand way open to the ball, perhaps 45º it becomes much easier to rotate back and through, and make consistent crisp contact. I chipped 35 balls out of a shag bag, probably at least 10 times, to the pin ~60 feet away and after setting up properly, rarely mi**** one and got them pretty much all to go where I wanted.

Some questions about chipping:

How the hell do the pros hit the low chip that bounces once and then just stop dead? Is it perfect contact, better wedges, better balls, or a combination of these? Even with the 60º, the low chip still ran a little. I couldn't hit the long, low chip and have it stop after 1 or 2 bounces.

Also, with the higher lofted clubs, too often I would shank them. What is it about these clubs that causes this frustrating result? I would set up the same with them as I would with the PW but sometimes would shank them - it would squirt out low and right of where I was aiming.

All in all, it was a great experience, lots of fun, and very informative, too. As I was standing there practicing on the empty putting green, I glanced over at the driving range and saw it was pretty busy. I thought it ironic that people pay to hit bucket after bucket of balls, but it's completely free and more comfortable (fewer or no people) to practice the part of the game that matters most.

Thanks to Dagolfdoc for his innovative approaches to the game, and for altruistically helping strangers to reach their goals.

I found them hard too, it took me several sessions to get the 25 in a row. When I did I was putting much better in the round, then I started putting worse and when I tried to do the 25 in a row in practice I couldn't do it. Just got it re-sorted out yesterday.

Hey guys & gals - thanks for reviving an old threat. While I'm constantly adding/changing the routine for my students, I think it's still a very relevant practice routine to help you touch each area of the game & focus on scoring. Remember you can make the numbers whatever works for you - make it challenging, but if it's too difficult, set the bar lower & work your way up to a higher number.

To touch on some lag putting questions: A big thing I see with most students - they are trying to make the long putt (which is good), but they don't have a destination for the ball to stop. Some may say, "I want to stop it in a 3 foot circle" or "I just focus on the hole" - players need to have a focus of where they want the ball to stop!! To understand this feel, take a poker chip or chapstik tube and place it on the ground 20-30 feet away from you - roll balls trying to stop the ball on the poker chip. Do this for 5-10 minutes from various distances learning to stop the ball by the chip. Next take the poker chip and place it 6 inches behind the hole & start hitting straight 6-10 foot putts focusing on stopping the ball on the chip (the hole will get in the way). After getting some feel, move to longer putts and put the chip a few inches behind the hole - keep rolling putts trying to send the ball on a speed that will stop at the chip. After very little practice, you'll soon feel that you are rolling a ball to a destination & your lag putts will improve!

the low spinner is a great shot & one of the sexiest in golf - to do it you must have a few factors (in addition to practice & touch) 1) clean surface - clean, sharp groves, and a lie without interference of grass - this is HUGE! 2) You must come in on a shallow angle - you should try to bruise the ground, not take a divot - by coming in shallow you give the club a chance to create great spin. I like students to feel like they have a razor blade on the leading edge of the club and they are just trying to shave the tops of the grass off the turf, not dig up grass 3) Hands forward - this reduces the loft of the club and hits the ball lower 4) Ball hits low on the face - the ball contacts the club low on the face hitting the bottom grooves, this creates more spin. Don't be upset if you hit a few shots thin when trying this the first time - keep your weight forward and you'll get it. 5)Speed - you don't need massive speed, but speed will increase spin to a certain extent - don't be afraid to accelerate through the shot. For some good visuals, watch the Tiger Woods chip shots I've posted from Augusta - you can see his hands forward, barely brushing the grass, and his shallow angle of attack. I believe they are posted in another thread and also on my youtube channel (robstocke).

For the shanks - they are usually caused by 2 things in chipping - excess use of the hands (flipping or trying to square the face) or being off-balance towards your toes. They can also come from swinging too far from the inside, but I'd check the first two initially. Set up like you're going to hit a shot and look at the angle of your lead wrist (left for a RH player) make some slow swings without a ball watching your wrist - try to keep that angle the same back and through (might feel like a long putting stroke) - you'll see how the arms & torso move the hands, not the wrists. It may feel stiff at first, but you'll keep the face square and improve impact.

Good luck & keep the questions coming!

Great post as always golf doc

Thanks for the advice, Doc. I think the shanked chip shots were caused by coming from too far inside - i felt it when it happened and i Suspected that was the Problem. as for the low spinner, i wont be investing a large sum of money for an expensive wedge, so can you advise how to keep the grooves on your existing wedges as clean as possible? Thanks.

Also, ive decided not to play a round until ive completed at least the putting, chipping and pitching parts of the routine-then play and see the difference. I intend to complete at least those parts at least once before every future round, no matter how ****ing long it takes.

Thanks again, Doc.

The first part sounds obvious, but clean the face - really clean it. Dig the grooves out with a tee & dry the face. I see so many people play with wedges covered in dirt/mud, grooves caked with dirt in them, then take a couple practice swings & quickly brush the club with their foot -- then wonder why it didn't check up when it landed. If your grooves are worn, you can use a dremel tool to sharpen them a little.

A new study by a friend of mine tested wedges & the spin - he came up with a pretty neat finding - there wasn't a huge difference between the size or amount of grooves, but the material between the grooves. His finding shows that a milled face provides more spin than a non-milled face. They also reported that the Taylormade ATV had the best results based on material between grooves.

Another way to get a few hundred rpms out of a wedge is to replace the shaft - the Dynamic Gold Spinner & the KBS Hi Rev both have shown to add a decent amount of spin on shots.

And, just to add, a high performance/high spin ball is imperative if you want spin on shorter wedge shots.

Keep up the good work! Great question.

love this routine esp the 25 3 footers in a row....took me a number of tries to get it done by finally did.....think the best thing about this is when I go to practice short game now I have a target to reach - before I would aimlessly putt and chip and get nothing accomplished. thanks doc

My son's short game is now improving quickly so again a big thank you for excellent advice.

Thanks for the nice compliments - if you enjoy the routine - you might want to check out my other threads (specifically the one about fun on-course game improvement - can't remember the title, but it's relatively new).

Also, check out the site www.mygogi.org - you can friend me on there and shoot videos off your phone for review.

Keep up the good work!

RS

This is the one Rob is referring to game improvment (I think) Grats on the round yesterday too!!

Great links, thanks so much.

Trying to prepare him for the USKG world championship next year if he is good enough but it is hard to figure out the standard from the scoring numbers as they are short courses. My feeling is that it's mostly a chip and putt game.

I am working on practicing correctly and making it fun as well. It's working out OK so far as 75% is on his short game.

Yes, the USKG WC really comes down to pitch & putt - not so much because of the length (although I have a student who drove a par 5 last year), but because at that level, many of the kids suffer in distance control around the greens and in making putts. If your son can really work on pitching, chipping, and putting - he will be worlds ahead of most of the kids his age.

Something that's fun and productive is to get 4-5 laundry baskets and place them 10 yards apart (10,20, 30, 40 yards etc) and have hit try to fly the ball into those - it's amazing how quickly kids learn distance control when they are trying to fly to a target - on the course they tend to think "Flag" which is where we want it to STOP, not land! In my junior camps we use the little inflatable swimming pools and kids love it.

For putting lay 2 clubs (or alignment rods) down about 4 feet apart and have him roll putts from various distances that stop between the clubs. Distance control is huge at his level and learning it early will pay off big time!

Keep us posted on his progress - we'll be looking for him in the USKG WC next year!

Thanks Doc. super tips. Working on it already.

Laundry baskets won't be allowed.

Instead what I have been doing with him is much the same principal as you suggest but I stand on a fairway and have him wedge the ball into my hands so it drops and I easily catch it. I am the human target!

We start with 15 yards and end at 50 yards and the rule is that we do not change distance until he hits 3 into my hands starting with the shortest one first.

We have been doing this for 6 weeks so far and he has taken most of the 'hit' out of each controlled shot which was my goal.

Many times other members will just stand and stare at this little 8 year old in disbelief and I have had lots of positive comments.

It seems to be in contrast to many routines I see where members blast away with their drivers and woods on the range without purpose and it becomes ugly with one terrible shot followed by another and of course they do not improve.

dagolfdoc, do you know of any driving ranges or public courses with sufficient practice facilities to do these drills in ATL (preferably ITP)? I would love to be able to practice seriously after work, but don't have a club membership and its just not feasible to drive over an hour roundtrip to find a decent practice facility otp. I'm having trouble getting back into golf after only playing a few times a year since HS due to the lack of easily accessible courses in the city and no good ranges.

I tried pitching yesterday from 40 yds with rather dismal results. I feel the pitching part of the routine should be easier than the chipping, because accuracy isn't placed at a premium - all you have to do is hit the green as opposed to getting it inside 3 feet. The main problem with pitching is that the chipping setup and alignment don't seem to work when pitching. The chipping setup doesn't really allow for long swings with more power, which are required to make the ball travel 40 yards. What kinds of technical adjustments need to be made when pitching? Where is the ball in the stance, how does the swing motion compare, etc.?

Thanks!

Where do people do this? I don't know a place (Twin Cities area in MN) where I can hit 100 balls at a green from 70 yards. I found a range near my house where I can hit unlimited balls for $100/mo but they, and other courses in my area, seem to only have practice greens.

Anyway, I'm picking this back up. I'm currently spending a lot of time on my long game since its completely broken right now.

Sunday I got to 26/30 on 3-footers after 5-6 tries before I had to quit for the night. Didn't realize the original suggestion was 25 in a row.

This morning I got 20 and then 25 on my 2nd try before a storm rolled through and cut my session short.

Sounds great! If you're not there, he can place towels on the ground as well to use as targets. I'm sure you'll be getting more & more positive comments as his game continues to improve!

I'd love to see his swing! Please post a video on here or you can go to www.mygogi.org and post it to me there as well.

Keep up the good work - sounds like he's in love with the game!

I'll see if I can come up with any decent ranges ITP - most of the ranges I know of aren't the best, and the good ones are private. Depending on where ITP you are, there's a couple decent ones in the Norcross & Lawerenceville areas. I know Charlie Yates (by East Lake) & Bobby Jones both have facilities, but I haven't been to either recently to comment on quality.

I'll see what I can find & let you know.

Your pitching setup will be slightly different from chipping. Feet as wide as if you were standing talking to someone, sternum slightly tilted towards target (keeps you from backing out of shot), arms hanging naturally. Most people tend to stand too far from the ball on pitch shots, so start a little closer than you normally do. From there, I recommend starting with the "arms swing back, arms & both swing through" motion -- don't worry about the wrists, let them hinge & unhinge naturally. Control the distance with the amount & speed of your pivot on the downswing - I don't ever worry about how far I take the club back, just focus on swinging through with your arms & body. Last thing - make sure your forearms don't have tension, let them be very soft.

If you check my "Hello" thread (it's on here somewhere - may be a link in the HOF sticky) there is a long post about pitching and technique (might be around post #119). That might be of help also.

Feel free to ask more questions if you need more info & don't hesitate to post a video.