Hey Fellas...probably have seen this topic 1000 times before but I just want to know from my recent experience what I should continue to do...

I'm anywhere from a 8-14 handicap and mostly a twice a week player with a full time career but plan to be pretty dedicated if my life allows me to be, I typically want to play some county tourneys and just see what happens eventually but I would definitely like to compete to get the juices flowing within the next 2 years. I'm 31 btw so pretty over the hill but **** it.

Anyway, I've been playing for 7 years and have had Taylor Made Burner 1.0s ever since I started, got pretty good with them and even had a hole in one with my 50 burner... I just bought AP2s 716 from PGA Superstore around 80 days ago and played about 15 rounds with them...I liked them...but wasn't insanely happy with them..I'm not sure I even birdied one iron shot in those 15 rounds with them...
I had a really hard time with the 4 and 5 irons.. I would sometimes hit beauties and my 4 iron would only carry about 180 which really pissed me off esp if I was going for a par 5 in two. I even went back to the PGA superstore and had them bent 2 degrees to get more distance which did help but I still needed perfect strikes to get the distance I expected.

Long story short, I went ahead and returned my AP2s and got store credit. I broke my driver a few days before so I bought an M3 440 and another driver for my GF and I had planned to just buy new irons later on, after trying some more since I kind of prematured with the AP2s and impulse bought.

Played my first round today since my AP2 return back with my burners and shot an 80(also had no driver, only 3w off the tee from the tips) when I haven't really been close to that with the AP2s in my 15 rounds prior, birdied a nice 6i par 3 180yards, next hole approach shot 5 iron 195 to 10 feet. Next approach perfect plucked 9i from a fairway bunker..

I mean I've been playing with those burners for years and years and I guess I'm just adjusted to them but should I be looking to switch if I'm so comfortable with them? Maybe I just like the uniflex shaft in the burners but I have a pretty fast swing speed. Driver is about 95-100 on average.

I guess I'm not in a major rush to get new irons, I'm sure they all perform fairly the same but I do feel a lot more freedom with the burners, I can just have a go at them when with the AP2s I'm trying so damn hard to hit the sweet spot.

Has anyone else gone from players irons back to forgiving or if I really want to get to the next level give the players irons another shot eventually?

My OG plan was to return the AP2s and get either the AP3s or to get a mix set of 4,5,6 AP3s or muscle backs and 7,8,9,P in AP2 or AP3s..or another brand but with the 4,5 muscle back and the rest cavity backs or blades

So many questions to ask and answer here.

AP2's are players irons, why fight an uphill battle when there are plenty of irons out there better for you?

Did you hit the AP2's before you bought? Not that I trust what workers at PGA Tour Superstore say but would be curious to know what they advised.

By now you probably know that having two clubs bent is not the best idea and nothing more than a band-aid as to the real issue.

Why did you buy an M3 440 over other options? What shaft does it have in it?

Speaking of shafts, here is the most important question and one you didn't touch on. What shafts did the AP2's have in them? What most people don't know these days is that shafts are now the most important part of the iron equation. With weights anywhere between 50 and 130 grams with various characteristics, it's next to impossible to get the correct shaft for you just randomly off the rack.

Unless you're a scratch or better you've no business hitting blades.

Ditch the 4-iron and get a ~22 degree hybrid.

If you want to do things right, get fitted by a reputable fitter. This would not be somebody at a big box store, it's actually pretty tough to find a top notch fitter.

I guess a question everybody has to ask is if you are looking to get clubs that would help you play your best, or would you rather get clubs that look pretty and feel awesome when you hit that absolutely perfect shot.

There are simply so many options out there in regards to heads and shafts it's impossible for most to know which way to go so they can have the most fun out there.

Here is likely your issue. You've played with uniflex shafts for years and gotten used to them. Switching to any stiff shaft is going to just plain not feel right to you. You could still do it and just put the time in to get used to them or you could get some new irons and have similar shafts put in them that match those uniflex.

Player vs forgiving: Here's the dumbed down version of my opinion on this. I'm a low single digit handicapper and nowhere near the player that BO is, so take this for what it's worth. The difference is that with a blade or players iron you will find it much easier to work the ball (not something an 8+ handicapper should be worried about), but unless you hit it in the sweet spot every shot, you are going to find the results very unsatisfying. The cavity back and more forgiving irons have a much bigger sweet spot and the ball will just tend to fly straighter in general and I would recommend them for you and the extreme majority of all golfers as you will find on the majority of shots they will go further for you than a players iron.

This plan... seems backwards to me. If you want a mixed set, that's fine, but you should be having your longer clubs like the 4,5,6, and maybe even 7 iron in cavity backs and your 8,9,PW in a muscle back. I personally use a forgiving club for my 4 and 5 iron and have 6-PW as players irons. I agree with BO that you probably will benefit from having at least a 3H and 4H and maybe even a 5H. These are very easy to hit for most people and you won't have that problem of hitting your 4H only 180. I personally have Driver, 3W, 2h, 3h, 4i-PW... There is more gap than I would like between the 3h and 4i, but that's ok with me for my needs. Generally if your longest iron was a 5i then you should also have a 5h since it will be longer than the 5i, but that has nothing to do with your question I guess.

Good discussion.

As a side note how do I know what hybrid (number or loft) I need to get to replace my 3 and 4 iron. My irons currently are 21 and 24.5 degree lofts. I am also looking for an 18 degree 4 fairway club and all I have come across that seems decent are adjustable? Why do adjustable clubs just sound wrong to me.

I would tell you to replace your 3 and 4 iron with a ~21* and 25* as a great place to start and then see how your yardage gaps are and adjust from there. You may find a gap bigger than you like between the 25* and your 5i, but personally I'm good with that. YMMV. Adjustable clubs are great IMO. Great to be able to adjust for +or- 2*.

The AP2s had a True Temper Gold shaft in them. I did like them but I was finding way too much inconsistency with the 4-7 iron while I liked most of my shots 8-P.

I had barely tried them prior to buying, I was pretty set on getting either AP1-2 and the AP3 weren't on sale. During the fitting I hit the AP1s worse than the AP2s so thats why I got em.

I got the M3 440 Altos Red shaft. I spent about an hour hitting different drivers and shafts and I was sold on the M3 bc of the adjustments. I really like being able to shift that weight around because right now I'm playing a fade that goes right about 10-20 yards and I can move the weights to the draw position and I was hitting perfectly straight ones consistently. I've always played a low degree driver, my past driver was a rocketballz with a speeder 757 shaft and I would usually change my driver setting to a 7.5-8 or upright and it helped it stay on course the longest and straightest.

Suit your right about me getting mixed up.. I get confused about CB, MB and all that but what I meant was I want a muscle back 4-6 and players 7-P.


I'm a fairly good ball striker tho which is why I think I can put any iron in my hand and start getting some good rounds together so I will keep looking for a good set. I could maybe talk myself into a 4h because that would give me a perfect 200 yard shot but I do like having a 4i in the bag bc I'm punching out of crap with it at least once a round lol

I agree getting fitted by a true fitter is the way to go, the past few times I've gone to a "fitting" they are pretty lazy about it and tell me my swing is good and I won't go wrong with whatever clubs I decide.


I played another round today with my burners and I pushed most my shots right but still had a few good ones. I will just keep them for now and bounce around some demo days at the local clubs and not rush it. I'm real close to putting some good rounds together in the 70s the main thing that had held me back in the past was pretty much only chipping and pitching and I've gotten 100x better at both this year so once that new driver comes in I'll expect to go pretty low for a weekend player.

4 irons are awesome and make great alignment sticks

Ehh but I never go to the range

I agree about needing the 4i for punching out. I use mine closer to 5 times per round unfortunately. If I could hit the driver without being in trouble just 90% of the time, I would be scratch. SMH. Hate driver right now.