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Old 11-14-2011, 04:59 PM   #176
threewhack
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

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Originally Posted by golfnutt View Post
John Daly ran out of balls at the last tournament and I am perplexed because I keep reading that if he told the tour officials that they could have brought out more balls to him.

Is that really legal?
There is no rule against getting golf balls from any source, including his playing partner(s) as long as it doesn't unduly slow down play. The trouble lies in professional events, there is almost always a "one ball" rule requiring that the exact type of ball you started the round with must be the one you finish with. More than likely he had plenty more in his locker.

The replay I saw showed him well short of the green when dumping his 6th ball into the hazard. He was clearly doing it on purpose and then misinterpreting the "rule" that he was then forced to withdraw. I'm a fan, but I believe this will be a final straw for him.
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Old 11-14-2011, 05:36 PM   #177
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

Yes, aware of one ball rule. Wondering how different the tour balls are from the pro shop and if that is an option.

I am sure the ball reps have people at this tournament though with hundreds of balls.

And I wonder if his caddy also had a secret stash of balls but was done with the side show too and just wanted it over.
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Old 11-14-2011, 05:54 PM   #178
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

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Wondering how different the tour balls are from the pro shop and if that is an option.
I think it's somewhat common knowledge that some tour players play golf balls that are not available to the public. If you look at the USGA conforming ball list you'll see that there are often several iterations of one model. Some of which I believe are the standard changes every manufacturer makes and releases to the public, some of which are made specifically for the tour.

If you ever get a peek inside a tour players locker, you'll sometimes see the boxes have no markings on them, or very little. These are usually approved prototypes that you can't get.

I remember when the Pro-V was just about to launch in the summer of 2000, I got a hold of some that were Tom Lehman's. They were in a white box with nothing printed.
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Old 11-14-2011, 07:34 PM   #179
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

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I think it's somewhat common knowledge that some tour players play golf balls that are not available to the public. If you look at the USGA conforming ball list you'll see that there are often several iterations of one model. Some of which I believe are the standard changes every manufacturer makes and releases to the public, some of which are made specifically for the tour.

If you ever get a peek inside a tour players locker, you'll sometimes see the boxes have no markings on them, or very little. These are usually approved prototypes that you can't get.

I remember when the Pro-V was just about to launch in the summer of 2000, I got a hold of some that were Tom Lehman's. They were in a white box with nothing printed.
That is why I wonder how hard would they enforce the 'one' ball rule. It seems in this course with JD 40 shots off the pace, he and they wouldn't care.
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Old 06-11-2012, 12:02 AM   #180
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

can i remove leaves, pine needles etc. from my line in a tourney? i was thinking yes, but i remember recently pressel complaining munoz touched her line. was that munoz' or pressel's line? seen guys on canadian tour use towel whipping to blow off their own line

thx in advance
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Old 06-11-2012, 12:13 AM   #181
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

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can i remove leaves, pine needles etc. from my line in a tourney? i was thinking yes, but i remember recently pressel complaining munoz touched her line. was that munoz' or pressel's line? seen guys on canadian tour use towel whipping to blow off their own line

thx in advance
Yes. It's OK to touch your line when doing maintenance such as removal of impediments or fixing ball marks. And it was Munoz supposedly touching her own line while reading her putt.

BO
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Old 07-20-2012, 08:37 PM   #182
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Situation that came up today that probably has a simple answer. between two holes there is a pond that is fed by a stream that flows from the green end of the hole i am playing, through some trees and then to the pond. There is a red stake at the point where the stream enters the pond. There are no other red stakes in view. A ball is hit into the trees surrounding the stream and cannot be located.

Ruling?

edit to add: "trees" isnt a good description. it is a marshy, low lying area with a lot of standing water and tall grasses, some small trees
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Old 07-20-2012, 08:52 PM   #183
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

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Situation that came up today that probably has a simple answer. between two holes there is a pond that is fed by a stream that flows from the green end of the hole i am playing, through some trees and then to the pond. There is a red stake at the point where the stream enters the pond. There are no other red stakes in view. A ball is hit into the trees surrounding the stream and cannot be located.

Ruling?

edit to add: "trees" isnt a good description. it is a marshy, low lying area with a lot of standing water and tall grasses, some small trees
Unless you can confirm with a high level of certainty that you went into the pond, then I think it has to be played like a lost ball, ie. stroke and distance penalty. If you could somehow confirm it, it would just be played like a water hazard
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Old 07-21-2012, 12:52 AM   #184
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

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Unless you can confirm with a high level of certainty that you went into the pond, then I think it has to be played like a lost ball, ie. stroke and distance penalty. If you could somehow confirm it, it would just be played like a lateral hazard
FYP. Red stakes indicate a lateral hazard rather than yellow stakes indicative of water hazards. It sounds like it does play as such, but just ask the golf shop staff or pro how to proceed to be sure.
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Old 08-06-2012, 07:56 PM   #185
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

I was playing a competitive round for money against my friend, and late in the round I was hitting my 2nd shot from off the right side of the fairway on a par5. It was a punch shot by a few trees and hit the bottom trunk of a midsize tree about 50 yards ahead. It appeared to kick straight up into the tree but never came down. We never found it but were both very sure that it kicked straight up and not left or right, but there was some high bushy grass about 10 yards right of the tree.

I believe there is no penalty if you can actually identify the ball in the tree correct? I've seen the times where they have bonoculars trying to identify it being lost in the tree. Or if you identify it do you still take a penalty but just get the benefit of dropping right there and not having to rehit from original location like a lost ball/ob etc.?

Does it matter at all if you and your playing partners both have no reasonable doubt that the ball kicked up into the tree and never came down? Kind of like where you and your partners conclude your ball went in a hazard and therefore you don't have to play it as a lost ball.

This is pretty key, because like I said there was money on the line and I ended up losing by 1 stroke playing it as a lost ball. I also played another ball by the tree as if there was no penalty, and I would actually win by one. Also, in the situation where I could drop by the tree with a penalty, we would tie. Have a bad feeling I lost by one though.

Thanks for the help.
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Old 08-06-2012, 09:11 PM   #186
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

if you can identify it in the tree you can declare it unplayable and play from a drop at the tree with 1 penalty stroke. if you cannot locate and identify the ball, it is lost in both the classic and golf sense of the word and it is stroke and distance.
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Old 08-06-2012, 10:33 PM   #187
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

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if you can identify it in the tree you can declare it unplayable and play from a drop at the tree with 1 penalty stroke. if you cannot locate and identify the ball, it is lost in both the classic and golf sense of the word and it is stroke and distance.
Ah that makes obv sense now, being able to identify it but not able play it so you take an unplayable. I could never find/identify it anyway tho, so gg me.

Thanks for the help.
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Old 08-13-2012, 09:07 PM   #188
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

Hit a drive under a tree. Get there and the tree has roughly 12 bazillion bees buzzing around it. Relief?
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Old 08-13-2012, 09:33 PM   #189
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

HIT THE BALL WHERE IT MOTHER****ING LIES, KENO!
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Old 08-13-2012, 09:38 PM   #190
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

kool thread. hope the respones are accurate.

if my local munis have terribad maintenance and grounds keeping, where massive parts of the fairway is peppered with patches of barron dirt/dust(non grass), is it ground under repair always? there are no markers stating such, but there never is. figure cuz their not planning on repairing it!

it just is so aggravating when you hit a clean drive down the middle, only to walk up and see that it rolled into one of these dirt patches, and now you got a tight, squirrley, hardpan lie with less than 100yds to pin.

me and my friend always play as it lies and i think he is getting the better of it, since im a better player and am in the fairway more often. we play with a handicap for him and play for significant money. we play this way because neither of us knows any better. if i present him that this is an offical rulling i can switch the parameters on him for the wagers.

thx
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Old 08-13-2012, 09:43 PM   #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallypop View Post
HIT THE BALL WHERE IT MOTHER****ING LIES, KENO!
lol I did, wondering if I was entitled to relief.

It was "under" a small oak tree, meaning the ball was beneath the branch but I was able to advance it about 75 yards. As I walked away, I wondered if I was allowed relief.
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Old 08-13-2012, 10:00 PM   #192
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

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lol I did, wondering if I was entitled to relief.

It was "under" a small oak tree, meaning the ball was beneath the branch but I was able to advance it about 75 yards. As I walked away, I wondered if I was allowed relief.
Look up 'dangerous situation' in golf rules. Free drop, no closer to the hole... blah, blah.
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Old 08-14-2012, 01:32 AM   #193
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

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Originally Posted by nih han View Post
kool thread. hope the respones are accurate.

if my local munis have terribad maintenance and grounds keeping, where massive parts of the fairway is peppered with patches of barron dirt/dust(non grass), is it ground under repair always? there are no markers stating such, but there never is. figure cuz their not planning on repairing it!

it just is so aggravating when you hit a clean drive down the middle, only to walk up and see that it rolled into one of these dirt patches, and now you got a tight, squirrley, hardpan lie with less than 100yds to pin.

me and my friend always play as it lies and i think he is getting the better of it, since im a better player and am in the fairway more often. we play with a handicap for him and play for significant money. we play this way because neither of us knows any better. if i present him that this is an offical rulling i can switch the parameters on him for the wagers.

thx
Play it as it lies, rub of the green. No different that landing in a divot.

Besides, a good player can make the ball juice like crazy from hardpan if struck correctly. The tough part is there's no margin for error.

BO
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Old 08-15-2012, 02:35 PM   #194
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

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Originally Posted by ntnBO View Post
Play it as it lies, rub of the green. No different that landing in a divot.

Besides, a good player can make the ball juice like crazy from hardpan if struck correctly. The tough part is there's no margin for error.

BO
i dont see how thats the same as landing in a divot, since a divot is created by normal play and will eventually be regrown. this seems more of a facility issue. however if thats the rules, then so be it. i can live with that.

thx
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Old 09-15-2012, 09:31 PM   #195
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

I think I need to just declare this unplayable but I'm curious if there are other options:

I hit off the tee on a dogleg left. Ball slices, hits the fairway, rolls through the rough, rolls over a gravel cart path, and directly into an even longer area of grass. When I get to the ball, it's sitting up on top of the longer grass and I notice that there are rocks partially hidden beneath the ball. This area goes back "behind" the ball (drawing a line from the pin to the ball) maybe 100 yards. The area isn't marked by stakes and is not considered a hazard according to the card. Rocks are all over the place in here, so I can't move it and hit safely in this area.

(1) Do I get relief from rocks? If so, can I drop "left" of the cart path, even though it improves my lie?
(2) Do I need to just declare this unplayable, so I don't **** up my clubs?

I declared unplayable, dropped in the (shorter) rough to the left of the cart path and took one stroke (under 28(c), I find out later).
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Old 09-15-2012, 10:35 PM   #196
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

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I think I need to just declare this unplayable but I'm curious if there are other options:

I hit off the tee on a dogleg left. Ball slices, hits the fairway, rolls through the rough, rolls over a gravel cart path, and directly into an even longer area of grass. When I get to the ball, it's sitting up on top of the longer grass and I notice that there are rocks partially hidden beneath the ball. This area goes back "behind" the ball (drawing a line from the pin to the ball) maybe 100 yards. The area isn't marked by stakes and is not considered a hazard according to the card. Rocks are all over the place in here, so I can't move it and hit safely in this area.

(1) Do I get relief from rocks? If so, can I drop "left" of the cart path, even though it improves my lie?
(2) Do I need to just declare this unplayable, so I don't **** up my clubs?

I declared unplayable, dropped in the (shorter) rough to the left of the cart path and took one stroke (under 28(c), I find out later).
You do not get free relief from rocks.

Could you have chipped your ball back out to the fairway without harming your club or yourself?

You have three options on where to drop when declaring an unplayable.

1, draw a line between the pin and your ball and go backwards along that line as far as you like (although as you described it, this is not an option in your case)

2, within two clublengths of where the ball lies no closer to the hole. Was where you dropped farther than two clublengths?

3, replay the ball from the previous spot, in your case you would be hitting three from the tee.

And naturally with all options you incur a one-shot penalty.

BO
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Old 09-16-2012, 03:23 PM   #197
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

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You do not get free relief from rocks.

Could you have chipped your ball back out to the fairway without harming your club or yourself?

You have three options on where to drop when declaring an unplayable.

1, draw a line between the pin and your ball and go backwards along that line as far as you like (although as you described it, this is not an option in your case)

2, within two clublengths of where the ball lies no closer to the hole. Was where you dropped farther than two clublengths?

3, replay the ball from the previous spot, in your case you would be hitting three from the tee.

And naturally with all options you incur a one-shot penalty.

BO
I don't think I could have chipped without hitting a rock and you're right that [1] wasn't an option. I dropped right to the left of the cart-path, which would have been just within two club lengths.

If two club lengths lands me on the cart path, I assume [3] is my only option? Or can I use rule 24-2 to drop further left?
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Old 09-16-2012, 03:25 PM   #198
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

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If two club lengths lands me on the cart path, I assume [3] is my only option? Or can I use rule 24-2 to drop further left?
not sure but I believe you can drop on cart path and get a free relief from there


my Q:
There are 2 holes that goes around driving range at my course. Few driving range balls usually lies on the fairway/ in the rough etc.
Is there a penalty for a player during a tournament for hitting those balls back to driving range ?
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Old 09-16-2012, 05:31 PM   #199
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

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I don't think I could have chipped without hitting a rock and you're right that [1] wasn't an option. I dropped right to the left of the cart-path, which would have been just within two club lengths.

If two club lengths lands me on the cart path, I assume [3] is my only option? Or can I use rule 24-2 to drop further left?
If two lengths lands you on the cartpath you drop anyway and then proceed under the applicable rule for dropping from the cartpath. Two separate drops covered by two separate rules.

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my Q:
There are 2 holes that goes around driving range at my course. Few driving range balls usually lies on the fairway/ in the rough etc.
Is there a penalty for a player during a tournament for hitting those balls back to driving range ?
This is the case at my home course as well and have been asked this by players many times, and I think the answer is interesting.

It's all about intent. If you're just screwing around and casually whacking range balls back towards the range (backhanding, one-handed, not lining up, not aiming towards a specific target, etc.) then that's OK. But if you take your time and make a normal swing then that would incur a penalty. In other words, if you strike the ball in any way that would give you positive feedback for your game, (in other words, practicing) it's not allowed.

Don't know if I explained it very well, but hopefully you get the point. Naturally, in any sort of competitive situation, it's best to just leave the range balls alone.

BO
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Old 09-16-2012, 06:20 PM   #200
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

I get it

But whats a penalty?
2 strokes?
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