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Old 08-10-2011, 11:32 AM   #151
LOL_Colij
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

playing a round with abour 4 9 handicaps, and 6 20-30handis, same tees on the par 3s, yet 20-30s never win closest to the pin. They still want to have the competition, but refuse to play ladies tees, and higher guys dont wanna play further tees bc of scoring. Any solutions or dump closest to the pin?
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Old 08-10-2011, 02:49 PM   #152
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

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Originally Posted by ReidLockhart View Post
So it goes by actual results? Or is this some sort of "cheap way of doing it yourself" for the course? I thought the USGA or whatever governing body takes care of it had to come in and do all their yardages and hazard analysis or whatever they do for slop and rating.
If I remember correctly: (I was playing drunk dealers choice poker with the pro at the time). He said it goes by the actual results. His biggest problem has been getting enough rounds from the "A" players.

The results will rank the holes by the difference then you put the odd holes on the front, even on the back so that the handicap holes aren't all front loaded or back loaded for match plays. Then you I think you can even make other subjective changes if it balances out the "shot" holes.
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Old 08-10-2011, 02:52 PM   #153
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

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Originally Posted by LOL_Colij View Post
playing a round with abour 4 9 handicaps, and 6 20-30handis, same tees on the par 3s, yet 20-30s never win closest to the pin. They still want to have the competition, but refuse to play ladies tees, and higher guys dont wanna play further tees bc of scoring. Any solutions or dump closest to the pin?
I've seen competitions that use tickets and if you get on the green you get a ticket. Then just draw a name. That way you have to hit it on the green but it won't exclude the higher handicappers that are 20 ft away. Maybe have 2 prizes, one for closest, one with the drawing.
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Old 08-10-2011, 06:14 PM   #154
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

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Originally Posted by Hotrod0823 View Post
If I remember correctly: (I was playing drunk dealers choice poker with the pro at the time). He said it goes by the actual results. His biggest problem has been getting enough rounds from the "A" players.

The results will rank the holes by the difference then you put the odd holes on the front, even on the back so that the handicap holes aren't all front loaded or back loaded for match plays. Then you I think you can even make other subjective changes if it balances out the "shot" holes.
I thought RL had it right, see here.
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Old 08-10-2011, 10:22 PM   #155
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

That's the course slope and rating not the hole handicaps. Two separate things.
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Old 08-11-2011, 05:49 AM   #156
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

I've heard of different ways to decide the hole hcp's. Some courses just look at all the scorecards that were handed in during a season and rate the holes according to this. Others have different ratings for men and women and other courses I have heard of have a one hcp system for stroke play and a different one for match play.

I think that at my club the holes are rated according to how difficult they play for a hcp player relative to how difficult they play for a scratch or better player. Effectively this means that they are rated for match play, so the player with the higher hcp will have strokes on the better player on the holes that play more difficult to him relative to the better player he is playing against.

Meh, this probably made no sense whatsoever...
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Old 09-19-2011, 07:32 AM   #157
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

Played in a member - member over the weekend. This situation came up.

We were playing a par 5 and it is an up hill dog leg left over a waste area that is staked yellow. From the tee it is 250 to the front, 300 yards to carry. It is playable from the hazard because it has actually been mowed to around 4in high. The ground is soft but not "wet". To the left half way up to the hole is a wooded area that is marked as a lateral hazard, even to the left side of the waste area.

My opponent is about 30 yards from the yellow hazard and pulls it into the wooded area to the left. Can he legally drop from the lateral hazard into the yellow hazard and play his 4th shot? 2 clubs from the point of entry puts his drop directly into the yellow hazard.
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Old 09-19-2011, 10:44 PM   #158
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

curious; how did he play it?
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Old 09-20-2011, 12:57 PM   #159
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

Player marks ball on green. Replaces ball without removing mark. Ball moves. Player replaces ball to where it was (where mark rests). Penalty?
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Old 09-20-2011, 01:38 PM   #160
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

If you bounce your club in the ground when it's red or yellow you get penalty. If you go with your wagon in red or yellow you don't. What happens if you accidentally drop your club in and your ball is not in the hedge, do you get a penalty shot?
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Old 09-20-2011, 03:26 PM   #161
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

Yesterday I heeled a shot off a par three that might have been lost in a waste, but might not have been. I declared provisional and put my next ball on the green. I found my first ball and hit it to the green, where it struck my provisional ball.

Penalty? (Obviously I know what to do when my ball strikes a playing partner's ball, or a random ball left behind by the group ahead of me -- but what about when it strikes my own provisional).

[Results: I got a much improved putt with my third shot due to my original ball being stopped by my provisional and made par.]
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Old 09-20-2011, 05:17 PM   #162
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

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Originally Posted by NegativeZero View Post
Player marks ball on green. Replaces ball without removing mark. Ball moves. Player replaces ball to where it was (where mark rests). Penalty?
I think the ball is in play when replaced, regardless of whether the mark is still there or not. I assume you mean the ball moves because of wind and not some "outside agency" (like the golfer, caddie, etc). So, if the player did move the ball back to the original spot, then the usual penalties apply.
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Old 09-20-2011, 05:21 PM   #163
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

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Originally Posted by the_scalp View Post
Yesterday I heeled a shot off a par three that might have been lost in a waste, but might not have been. I declared provisional and put my next ball on the green. I found my first ball and hit it to the green, where it struck my provisional ball.

Penalty? (Obviously I know what to do when my ball strikes a playing partner's ball, or a random ball left behind by the group ahead of me -- but what about when it strikes my own provisional).

[Results: I got a much improved putt with my third shot due to my original ball being stopped by my provisional and made par.]
Well I think technically you'd get a penalty for playing a provisional where you're not allowed to, but I don't think your ball hitting your own provisional ball is any different than hitting a playing partners ball
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Old 09-20-2011, 05:21 PM   #164
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

So when you're on the green is there any time you move the ball back when it moves due to wind? I thought when the marker wasn't down that it was in play and could move and while the marker was down you could position it however you want and keep moving it until you picked the marker back up, and even if wind moved it you would just put it back where the marker is.
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Old 09-20-2011, 05:26 PM   #165
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

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Originally Posted by NegativeZero View Post
Player marks ball on green. Replaces ball without removing mark. Ball moves. Player replaces ball to where it was (where mark rests). Penalty?
I would guess that setting the ball near the mark is not "putting it in play" until the mark is removed. Like if I put down a coin behind the ball, clean the ball and set it in front of the coin to look a the line with the ball there or whatever I don't think the ball is in play until I pick up my mark.

That's how I've always played it but I don't think I've ever read about this in the rules of golf. I could be wrong.
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Old 09-20-2011, 05:37 PM   #166
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

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Originally Posted by Rexx View Post
I think the ball is in play when replaced, regardless of whether the mark is still there or not. I assume you mean the ball moves because of wind and not some "outside agency" (like the golfer, caddie, etc). So, if the player did move the ball back to the original spot, then the usual penalties apply.
Correct. There is a specific decision that guides this ruling. (20-4/1)

I bring it up because it has become common practice to replace the ball without removing the marker, walk to another vantage point to view the putt, then pick up the ball and re-align the ball to a projected line prior to removing the marker.

A player may not be able to determine if the ball moved while walking away, other than guessing that the ball is close the the marker. The player should be obligated to re-mark the ball again (as though the marker was not there) to remove any doubt.
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Old 09-20-2011, 05:40 PM   #167
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

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Originally Posted by BadBoyBenny View Post
I would guess that setting the ball near the mark is not "putting it in play" until the mark is removed. Like if I put down a coin behind the ball, clean the ball and set it in front of the coin to look a the line with the ball there or whatever I don't think the ball is in play until I pick up my mark.

That's how I've always played it but I don't think I've ever read about this in the rules of golf. I could be wrong.
The ball is in play once replaced, even if the marker is not removed. Here is decision 20-4/1:

Quote:
Q. A player replaces his ball on the putting green but does not remove his ball-marker. Subsequently the wind moves his ball to a new position. What is the ruling?

A. Under Rule 20-4, a ball is in play when it is replaced, whether or not the object used to mark its position has been removed. Consequently the ball must be played from the new position — see Decision 18-1/12.
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Old 09-20-2011, 06:23 PM   #168
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

So what if you're on a steep slope and you put your ball down and it rolls before you pick up your marker? Is that not the same concept as having the wind blow it? What if you're on a steep slope and the wind blows it into the hole? Just a pretty dumb rule in general. If the marker is down, the ball shouldn't be in play.
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Old 09-20-2011, 07:23 PM   #169
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanteA View Post
If you bounce your club in the ground when it's red or yellow you get penalty. If you go with your wagon in red or yellow you don't. What happens if you accidentally drop your club in and your ball is not in the hedge, do you get a penalty shot?
Exception to 13-4: You are allowed to place a club in the hazard, unless you may be trying to gain advantage by testing the ground. The testing the ground doesn't apply since your ball isn't in the hazard. No penalty.
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Old 09-20-2011, 07:35 PM   #170
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

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Originally Posted by BadBoyBenny View Post
Well I think technically you'd get a penalty for playing a provisional where you're not allowed to, but I don't think your ball hitting your own provisional ball is any different than hitting a playing partners ball
Any time a ball may be lost outside of a water hazard or OB is an opportunity for a provisional ball. Hitting into an unmarked waste area certainly counts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by the_scalp View Post
Yesterday I heeled a shot off a par three that might have been lost in a waste, but might not have been. I declared provisional and put my next ball on the green. I found my first ball and hit it to the green, where it struck my provisional ball.

Penalty? (Obviously I know what to do when my ball strikes a playing partner's ball, or a random ball left behind by the group ahead of me -- but what about when it strikes my own provisional).

[Results: I got a much improved putt with my third shot due to my original ball being stopped by my provisional and made par.]
Odd situation. It seems like the provisional should have been abandoned and not in play after you found your original. I'd just shrug and say no penalty since it's such a niche situation and I can't find anything in any rule that covers it.
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Old 09-20-2011, 07:59 PM   #171
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

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Originally Posted by Thamel18 View Post
Odd situation. It seems like the provisional should have been abandoned and not in play after you found your original. I'd just shrug and say no penalty since it's such a niche situation and I can't find anything in any rule that covers it.
Yeah, that's what I ended up doing (shrugging and taking the lucky break), but it seemed a little weird given that the ball shouldn't have been there. But the alternative would have been walking 100 yards to the green to pick up a provisional ball that I was 1/1000 to hit and then walking back to take my second shot on my original ball. Just thought it was an interesting situation and was curious if it was directly addressed by the rules.
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Old 09-20-2011, 08:22 PM   #172
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

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So what if you're on a steep slope and you put your ball down and it rolls before you pick up your marker? Is that not the same concept as having the wind blow it? What if you're on a steep slope and the wind blows it into the hole? Just a pretty dumb rule in general. If the marker is down, the ball shouldn't be in play.
I'll let maxplay (or someone else) confirm, but again, I think the ball is in play. Yes, the wind or gravity can "move" the ball into the hole and it would be as if your previous shot was holed. Basically, marking your ball on the green allows you to lift (and clean) the ball without penalty (and that's about it). And just an FYI (and for anyone else), if you (or partner, caddie, etc) accidentally move the ball in the act of marking it (e.g. nudge the ball), you replace the ball to its original position without penalty.
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Old 09-20-2011, 08:36 PM   #173
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

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Originally Posted by Thamel18 View Post
Any time a ball may be lost outside of a water hazard or OB is an opportunity for a provisional ball. Hitting into an unmarked waste area certainly counts.
Yeah for some reason my wires got crossed when the original question used the word waste without following it by bunker or area

Quote:
Originally Posted by maxplay View Post
The ball is in play once replaced, even if the marker is not removed. Here is decision 20-4/1:
thanks, I'd been playing that wrong my whole life.
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Old 09-20-2011, 10:01 PM   #174
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curious; how did he play it?
He played it as a lateral but because he was on the corner it was dropped outside the hazard. Actualy played with the pro today and asked the question. The lateral ends at the Yellow and begins on the other side of the waste/ wetlands. The yellow hazard contiues into the wooded area.
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Old 11-14-2011, 04:34 PM   #175
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

John Daly ran out of balls at the last tournament and I am perplexed because I keep reading that if he told the tour officials that they could have brought out more balls to him.

Is that really legal?
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