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Old 07-28-2011, 10:26 AM   #101
UCBananaboy
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

Had this question about rules, hoping you guys can give me some input.

I hit a tee shot onto an adjacent green so I take relief. I drop the ball on the fringe because fringe = fairway right?

Do my feet have to be completely off of the green during my stance, similar to a cart-path full-relief rule or is this different?

Reason I ask is because my nearest point of relief was dropped on the fringe but my stance would have been in the bunker creating a super awkward stance. For a lefty, could he have taken his stance with feet on the green but ball on the fringe? Otherwise he'd have had to drop in the bunker?
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Old 07-28-2011, 10:56 AM   #102
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

Rule 25-3a says that you don't take a drop from the wrong green if you're just standing on it and the ball isn't on the green, so presumably it would count as taking relief from the green even if you still end up standing on it after dropping.
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Old 07-28-2011, 10:57 AM   #103
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

The way I read it, it says that the wrong putting green is only guilty of interference if your ball is actually on it. Your stance may be taken on it, and that doesn't count as interference. You can drop within one clublength of nearest point of relief without penalty. Fringe is fine, it is not the putting green. A lefty could have been standing on the green, it's not a full relief deal as it is with cart paths.
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Old 07-28-2011, 11:12 AM   #104
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

<3

Thanks for the clear-up.
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Old 07-28-2011, 07:14 PM   #105
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

Thanks for the replies. I've always played on course handicaps. Our slope from the whites is 121 with a rating of 69.5 vs 67.4/118 from the golds. So if we play a match with my 13.5 index my White course handicap is a 15. My oppentents index is 24 or a 25 from the golds. But because of the rating delta I only give 8 instead of 10.

The last question I have is that the handicapped holes are based on playing the white tees. The hardest holes based on HC are the par fives. And they also happen to have the most significant advantage.
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Old 07-28-2011, 08:43 PM   #106
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

How do you use the course rating to calculate your course handicap? I thought course handicap was just your index multiplied by the slope divided by 113.
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Old 07-29-2011, 10:55 AM   #107
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How do you use the course rating to calculate your course handicap? I thought course handicap was just your index multiplied by the slope divided by 113.
You are correct the course handicap is exactly that Index*SLOPE/113. But when you are playing an opponent from different tees you take into account the rating difference, if there is one.
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Old 07-31-2011, 10:37 PM   #108
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

Here's a rules question.

I get paired today in a Match Play contest. My friend gets paired in the same foursome as me playing another guy in Match Play.

Theoretically, could I have been his caddie and he be mine while we played in separate match play groups while in the same foursome?
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Old 07-31-2011, 11:32 PM   #109
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

What's the difference between a yellow-staked hazard and a red-staked hazard?

If I remember correctly, if your ball enters a red hazard, you have the following choices (let's assume that it was your tee shot entered the hazard):

A) Hit #3 from the tee
B) Hit #2 from where it lies
C) Hit #3 from the point of entry (within 2 club lengths, no closer to the hole)
D) Hit #3 from any point along the line created by the pin and the point of entry (no closer to the hole).

And, if I remember correctly, from a yellow hazard, you can do three of those four above options...but I don't remember which option becomes invalid for yellow stakes.

Thanks,
hd
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Old 07-31-2011, 11:51 PM   #110
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

Quote:
Originally Posted by humdinger View Post
What's the difference between a yellow-staked hazard and a red-staked hazard?

If I remember correctly, if your ball enters a red hazard, you have the following choices (let's assume that it was your tee shot entered the hazard):

A) Hit #3 from the tee
B) Hit #2 from where it lies
C) Hit #3 from the point of entry (within 2 club lengths, no closer to the hole)
D) Hit #3 from any point along the line created by the pin and the point of entry (no closer to the hole).

And, if I remember correctly, from a yellow hazard, you can do three of those four above options...but I don't remember which option becomes invalid for yellow stakes.

Thanks,
hd
In a yellow you have the option of A,B and D.

In a red you also have the option of E, Hit #3 equidistant (on the other side of the hazard) from the point of entry within 2 club lengths no near the hole.

BO
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Old 08-02-2011, 06:36 PM   #111
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

No help on my rule Bo?
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Old 08-02-2011, 09:33 PM   #112
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

Quote:
Originally Posted by UCBananaboy View Post
Here's a rules question.

I get paired today in a Match Play contest. My friend gets paired in the same foursome as me playing another guy in Match Play.

Theoretically, could I have been his caddie and he be mine while we played in separate match play groups while in the same foursome?
Without consulting the rule book, I'd say no. I can't see a case where another player could caddy in the same group. Equity issues.

Remember two or so years ago when Jesper's caddy Lance Ten Brock got into the Texas Open? He had to make sure it was OK but he was in the opposite wave. But nothing like being in the same group. Heck, what if you two were putting on the same line?

BO
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Old 08-02-2011, 10:57 PM   #113
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

I glanced through the rules and I don't see anything that explicitly forbids it. It's obviously a huge advantage, since your "caddy" can tell you what clubs he's hitting, you can discuss putts, etc., but what's stopping you and your friend's opponents from doing the same thing? It's weird that there's nothing (as far as I know of) that specifically says that a caddy cannot also be a player. But I have to imagine that any sane person running a tournament wouldn't allow you to do that.

Out of curiosity, is it standard for a club tournament to pair two matches together? Seems odd to me but I guess if the course is crowded it makes sense.
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Old 08-03-2011, 12:07 AM   #114
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

Definitely ask the rules people. I think it would be an unfair or "against the spirit of the game" advantage, even if it was okay by their standards, and I would avoid doing it. You just don't know how sour it might end up (ie. opponents frustrated/calling you guys cheats) for you, and he's obviously more than just a caddy as he is playing the course at the same time.
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Old 08-03-2011, 11:33 AM   #115
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelican86 View Post
I glanced through the rules and I don't see anything that explicitly forbids it. It's obviously a huge advantage, since your "caddy" can tell you what clubs he's hitting, you can discuss putts, etc., but what's stopping you and your friend's opponents from doing the same thing? It's weird that there's nothing (as far as I know of) that specifically says that a caddy cannot also be a player. But I have to imagine that any sane person running a tournament wouldn't allow you to do that.

Out of curiosity, is it standard for a club tournament to pair two matches together? Seems odd to me but I guess if the course is crowded it makes sense.
I thought it was strange too. I'd much rather play in 2-somes.

There was definitely a good bit of info you can gather though because you were paired with the group of your next opponent (winners of both matches play in next round).

Being able to scout 18 holes of your next opponent and seeing their weaknesses (i.e. being outdriven rattling them mentally or sucking on short putts) really changed my approach.

I'll try to find someone on Twitter or in a golf magazine who might have insight on this ruling.

My only argument in favor of it being allowed is that matches are considered mutually exclusive to one another. If I just pick up my ball at any time on a hole in stroke play, I'm DQ'ed, whereas in a Match Play, I just lose the hole. Same goes that some match play events allow you to play whenever you want, by a certain deadline, as long as you and your opponent are playing at the same time.
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Old 08-03-2011, 02:53 PM   #116
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

Quote:
The reasoning behind these rules are to protect what is one of the most integral premises of the game of golf. This is the premise that a player should NEVER be allowed to have a CHOICE (this is an important term here) between 2 balls to play. This idea necessitates the prohibition of provisionals when the water hazards are involved. For example:

A player hits a ball from the tee that is most likely in a water hazard. If a provisional is allowed in this situation, and the original ball IS in the water hazard, then this player would have a CHOICE between the balls. He or she would have 3 choices to proceed involving 2 golf balls: (1) play the original ball as it lies, (2) drop the original ball according to the rules for water hazards and lateral hazards and proceed, or (3) declare the provisional in play and proceed from that point playing his or her 4th shot.

We always have choices when hazards are involved. But we NEVER have choices involving multiple balls. The prohibition of provisionals in this situation keeps this part of the game intact and closes up any loopholes that could be exposed if a provisional was allowed in this situation.

It would seem like the most equitable thing to do is to just disallow using of the provisional ball if the ball is lost in a water hazard, but to allow using it if the ball is actually OB. For example, in the example in the thread, the guy thought his ball was lost OB. SO he hits a provisional. It turns out that it was in a hazard instead. So the provisional is not usable, but he can proceed under the water hazard rule.
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Old 08-03-2011, 05:30 PM   #117
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

Two questions -
1. ball plugs in its pitch mark in the rough is it a free drop? The rule book talks about closely mowed area??
2. ball on roots of tree in rough is this a free drop? The rule book talks about irregular ground?
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Old 08-03-2011, 08:35 PM   #118
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

Quote:
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Two questions -
1. ball plugs in its pitch mark in the rough is it a free drop? The rule book talks about closely mowed area??
2. ball on roots of tree in rough is this a free drop? The rule book talks about irregular ground?
Tree roots are natural and should be played as "through the green" which means, play it as it lies.

I'll let someone else handle the pitch mark, as I'm unsure if it's always a local rule or if it's a real rule about being embedded through the green.
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Old 08-04-2011, 12:10 AM   #119
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

Man I suck at rules. Used to know them front and back. Then I grew out of high school and couldn't play 10 rounds a week.

Ball on fringe/spins off front of green into fairway:

a.) T/F you can only repair your own ballmark, whether the ballmark be on the green or not
b.) T/F you can't take relief from a sprinkler head in your line (if you decide to putt the ball)
c.) T/F you can't remove a leaf or loose impediment on the green or on the fringe
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Old 08-04-2011, 03:02 AM   #120
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

Quote:
Originally Posted by UCBananaboy View Post
Man I suck at rules. Used to know them front and back. Then I grew out of high school and couldn't play 10 rounds a week.

Ball on fringe/spins off front of green into fairway:

a.) T/F you can only repair your own ballmark, whether the ballmark be on the green or not
b.) T/F you can't take relief from a sprinkler head in your line (if you decide to putt the ball)
c.) T/F you can't remove a leaf or loose impediment on the green or on the fringe
Based on my limited understanding of the rules, I would say:

a) F b) T c) F
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Old 08-04-2011, 03:11 AM   #121
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

A) F. You can't repair anything off of the green. You can repair any ball marks on the green.
B) F. You can, but I think you have to be within a certain distance from the green or the sprinkler or something.
C. F. Remove whatever the **** you like if it's loose. Even the drink girl's shirt if possible.

All educated guesses. I haven't known the rules ever probably, but now I'm really rusty.
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Old 08-04-2011, 03:26 AM   #122
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

You can only get free relief from a sprinkler head if it interferes with your stance I believe. If it is in your line, then you just have to chip over it.
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Old 08-04-2011, 08:57 AM   #123
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Mantis_ View Post
You can only get free relief from a sprinkler head if it interferes with your stance I believe. If it is in your line, then you just have to chip over it.
stance and intended swing path
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Old 08-04-2011, 03:46 PM   #124
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

You can repair stuff on green even if you aren't on it?
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Old 08-04-2011, 05:07 PM   #125
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

Quote:
Originally Posted by UCBananaboy View Post
You can repair stuff on green even if you aren't on it?
Yes, you've probably seen them do this when they have a makeable chip (or putt from fringe). Also, fyi... you can't repair ball marks on the fringe if it's in your line. But you're free to repair them if they're not... you know... if you feel like being a good guy.
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