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Old 10-11-2010, 10:52 PM   #76
Pelican86
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

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Originally Posted by ReidLockhart View Post
Penalty. I'll let some of the others spell it all out for you, but to cover the thing called "equity" in your specific scenario, you cannot assume the ball went into the water hazard. You have to be absolutely certain. The fact that you ended up finding your real ball in a bunker is obviously enough for us to say that you didn't search all the surrounding areas well enough to say that without a doubt it went into the hazard. Any time there is uncertainty as to whether your ball went into the hazard or was just lost in, say, the deep rough around the marked hazard, you have to (because of "equity") play it as a lost ball and go rehit your last shot.
So let's say I walk back to where I hit my last shot. I drop a ball and hit it, calling it a provisional; then I find my original ball. Can I still play the original? (I know there's a five-minute time limit of searching, with various provisions, exceptions, etc.)
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Old 10-12-2010, 01:28 AM   #77
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

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Originally Posted by Pelican86 View Post
So let's say I walk back to where I hit my last shot. I drop a ball and hit it, calling it a provisional; then I find my original ball. Can I still play the original? (I know there's a five-minute time limit of searching, with various provisions, exceptions, etc.)
Just like the previous question in this thread, you are not allowed to walk back and hit a provisional. If you hit a provisional, you must do so before searching for the original ball.

Once you walk back to the tee and hit the ball, that ball is now in play and the original ball is declared lost. Even if it's found, it's still lost.

BO
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Old 10-12-2010, 02:04 AM   #78
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

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Originally Posted by ntnBO View Post
Just like the previous question in this thread, you are not allowed to walk back and hit a provisional. If you hit a provisional, you must do so before searching for the original ball.

Once you walk back to the tee and hit the ball, that ball is now in play and the original ball is declared lost. Even if it's found, it's still lost.

BO
Thanks.
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Old 10-12-2010, 03:35 PM   #79
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

Prob a silly Q, but i went in some ****ty grass, no way to hit the ball and couldnt get a swing at it so i want to take a drop as the ball was clearly unplayable.

Where do i drop the ball? I couldnt go right as there was hedges, i could go left but i would prob move about 25 yards ( no closer the hole) is that right?
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Old 10-12-2010, 04:27 PM   #80
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

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Prob a silly Q, but i went in some ****ty grass, no way to hit the ball and couldnt get a swing at it so i want to take a drop as the ball was clearly unplayable.

Where do i drop the ball? I couldnt go right as there was hedges, i could go left but i would prob move about 25 yards ( no closer the hole) is that right?
From rule 28:

"If the player deems his ball to be unplayable, he must,
under penalty of one stroke:

a. Play a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule 20-5); or

b. Drop a ball behind the point where the ball lay, keeping that point directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind that point the ball may be dropped; or

c. Drop a ball within two club-lengths of the spot where the ball lay, but not nearer the hole."

So you can drop anywhere in a two-club radius circle around the ball (as long as you don't get closer to the hole); you can go back to where you hit the shot from; or you can go directly away from the hole as far back as you want.
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Old 10-12-2010, 05:00 PM   #81
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

I see,

what had happened Pelican was a very nasty lie in very wet bunker, but not in standing water.

It was a greenside bunker, i knew it was either going to be a great shot, or something bad. Mate was standing opposite me and i warned him to move, it was quite ammusing seing a 27 stone man jump!

Ended up in real thick grass, unable to drop two club lengths in any direction. Because of buches and thick, long grass.
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Old 06-26-2011, 05:28 PM   #82
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

This came up today. Drove ball onto the fringe of a par 3 up against the tall grass collar. So I use my hybrid to putt. While doing so I hold the end of the club against my belt buckle and make my stroke. It seemed naughty, but the other 2 guys had no idea. Looks like Rule 14-3 use of equipment in unusual manner. Not sure why I ask, I still don't have a legal ball in play on #9. I just took double par :/
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Old 07-07-2011, 04:54 PM   #83
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

I tee up and hit a crappy drive. My playing partner tosses me another ball and says "go ahead and reload, man." I wish to play by the rules of golf, but this is a casual round and I am not interested in being a douche. To get around this dilemma I declare my first ball unplayable and count the "reload" ball as my third stroke. Of course I re-tee the ball and don't drop.

Is this legal?
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Old 07-07-2011, 05:01 PM   #84
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

yes
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Old 07-07-2011, 08:40 PM   #85
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

Drop area question:

The 10th hole of my local course is a down hill par three over a grassy waste area marked off by yellow stakes. It can play between 160 and 200 depending on the tees. Today the tees were back with a wind in our face so I hit my 4 iron, badly. It came up short but was either very close to going into the hazard on the green side off the waste area or just on the edge.

At this point from up top we aren't 100% positive its in the hazard. There is a designated drop area down near the forward tees that is marked. I drop and play my 3rd shot and I'm about 5 feet up hill to the pin. From what I understand this isn't a provisional because I'm only playing it because I think I may be in the hazard and not a lost ball.

I go to the other side of the bridge and look for my ball and sure enough I find it in the tall grass out side the yellow stakes. Not in the hazard. Which ball do I have to play? Did I in-fact abandon the first ball when I hit from the drop area? If that's the case I really wasn't in the hazard so did I play from the drop area illegally?

Or do I pick up the second ball and play out with the original?

I've discussed this with a few different people and they all seem to have different opinions.

What would've been the best way to handle this situation?

J
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Old 07-07-2011, 08:47 PM   #86
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

You need to declare your drop a provisional if you plan on finding and playing your first ball.

I'm pretty sure you can hit a provisional after any shot if you think it'll save your group time.
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Old 07-08-2011, 03:41 AM   #87
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotrod0823 View Post
Drop area question:

The 10th hole of my local course is a down hill par three over a grassy waste area marked off by yellow stakes. It can play between 160 and 200 depending on the tees. Today the tees were back with a wind in our face so I hit my 4 iron, badly. It came up short but was either very close to going into the hazard on the green side off the waste area or just on the edge.

At this point from up top we aren't 100% positive its in the hazard. There is a designated drop area down near the forward tees that is marked. I drop and play my 3rd shot and I'm about 5 feet up hill to the pin. From what I understand this isn't a provisional because I'm only playing it because I think I may be in the hazard and not a lost ball.

I go to the other side of the bridge and look for my ball and sure enough I find it in the tall grass out side the yellow stakes. Not in the hazard. Which ball do I have to play? Did I in-fact abandon the first ball when I hit from the drop area? If that's the case I really wasn't in the hazard so did I play from the drop area illegally?

Or do I pick up the second ball and play out with the original?

I've discussed this with a few different people and they all seem to have different opinions.

What would've been the best way to handle this situation?

J
This is somewhat tricky but actually you have to make a decision on the teebox already. If the ball can be lost somewhere outside the hazard you have to hit a provisional from the tee. If you and your playing partners agree that the ball is in the hazard if you don't find it then you can hit a provisional from the drop area.

Since there is tall grass outside the hazard you could lose a ball there, so you really can't be sure that your ball is in the hazard if you're not able to find it. Thus I believe that you should have hit a provisional from the tee.
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Old 07-08-2011, 07:24 PM   #88
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

Does grounding your club in a bunker only apply if your ball is in a bunker?


Lets say my opponent is outside the bunker on a downslope...hits his shot hard and falls backward using the club as a crutch not to fall. In doing so he grounds his club in the bunker.

Is that a penalty?
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Old 07-08-2011, 08:13 PM   #89
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

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Originally Posted by varsity629 View Post
Does grounding your club in a bunker only apply if your ball is in a bunker?


Lets say my opponent is outside the bunker on a downslope...hits his shot hard and falls backward using the club as a crutch not to fall. In doing so he grounds his club in the bunker.

Is that a penalty?
No penalty

BO
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Old 07-09-2011, 09:23 AM   #90
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

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Originally Posted by mvoss View Post
If you and your playing partners agree that the ball is in the hazard if you don't find it then you can hit a provisional from the drop area.
In a casual round, to keep pace, I'd have no problem with this.
However, in competition it is important to understand that you cannot hit a provisional as you described here.
You may only hit a provisional for a ball that may be lost or o.b.

So basically, in a tournament, you're gonna need to go up and take a look first.
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Old 07-10-2011, 09:28 AM   #91
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

A greenside bunker marked ground under repair contains deep loose debris and tall sand piles. One of my playing partners strikes a ball that everyone sees go into this "bunker." Would he actually have to find his ball to take relief?
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Old 07-10-2011, 12:13 PM   #92
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

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Originally Posted by ph2133868789 View Post
A greenside bunker marked ground under repair contains deep loose debris and tall sand piles. One of my playing partners strikes a ball that everyone sees go into this "bunker." Would he actually have to find his ball to take relief?
No.

BO
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Old 07-11-2011, 04:54 AM   #93
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

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Originally Posted by JTrout View Post
In a casual round, to keep pace, I'd have no problem with this.
However, in competition it is important to understand that you cannot hit a provisional as you described here.
You may only hit a provisional for a ball that may be lost or o.b.

So basically, in a tournament, you're gonna need to go up and take a look first.
Sorry, I was mistaken - I really should just stay out of this thread

However, I believe that addition 1.2-b allows a course or tournament direction to make a local rule allowing the drop I described?

Last edited by mvoss; 07-11-2011 at 05:07 AM.
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Old 07-11-2011, 01:19 PM   #94
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

Hit a teeshot in a fwy bunker that is filled with murky water. You are 100% that it is in there somewhere, but can't actually find it because you cant see thru the water. What's the dealio? drop inside bunker still if there's some sand?
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Old 07-11-2011, 02:06 PM   #95
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

You can take a free drop inside the bunker, nearest point of relief. If the whole bunker is unplayable, you need to take an unplayable drop and drop outside of the bunker.

At least that's what somebody told me the other week.
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Old 07-27-2011, 05:19 PM   #96
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

So a senior member of our mens club insists on playing from the golds during our year long match play event. Should he be allowed to? In that case should his opponent be allowed to play forward? It a handicapped event but playing forward IMO is too much of an advantage.

Thought

J
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Old 07-27-2011, 11:09 PM   #97
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

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So a senior member of our mens club insists on playing from the golds during our year long match play event. Should he be allowed to? In that case should his opponent be allowed to play forward? It a handicapped event but playing forward IMO is too much of an advantage.

Thought

J
That's really a club decision not a rules decision. If the guy's handicap was established playing the golds and he was playing to that number then I wouldn't really care if I was a member.
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Old 07-27-2011, 11:24 PM   #98
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

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Originally Posted by tzwien View Post
You can take a free drop inside the bunker, nearest point of relief. If the whole bunker is unplayable, you need to take an unplayable drop and drop outside of the bunker.

At least that's what somebody told me the other week.
I would like to add that if you can't get a free drop IN the bunker from the casual water, you have to take a penalty stroke. Maybe BO can give some more detail. Pretty sure if that's the case you treat it like a hazard (yellow).
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Old 07-28-2011, 07:41 AM   #99
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

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Originally Posted by Hotrod0823 View Post
So a senior member of our mens club insists on playing from the golds during our year long match play event. Should he be allowed to? In that case should his opponent be allowed to play forward? It a handicapped event but playing forward IMO is too much of an advantage.

Thought

J
Since it is a handicapped match play event, the player who plays less forward (ie. longer) should get more strokes added to his handicap, by the difference of the course ratings of the two tees that the players are playing from. You should make sure to ask the committee of your mens club about playing from the same tees, or otherwise mitigating the senior members handicap advantage if you (or anyone else who plays him) plays tees that are further back. Also make sure to ask if they are doing course handicap (a calc based on index, course and slope rating) or just plain indexes. If it is course handicap, everything should end up equal anyways.
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Old 07-28-2011, 08:01 AM   #100
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

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Also make sure to ask if they are doing course handicap (a calc based on index, course and slope rating) or just plain indexes. If it is course handicap, everything should end up equal anyways.
This is a decent point. Anyone running any sort of handicapped event should always be converting the indexes to the appropriate course-handicap for the appropriate tee box.
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