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Old 06-28-2010, 01:55 AM   #26
ntnBO
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

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Originally Posted by GambleAB View Post
I hit a ball yesterday and it got stuck up in a tree. What's the ruling on that?
I'd rule it was a crappy shot.

First order of business is identifying your ball. You actually have to see where your ball is and confirm the markings visually. You may climb the tree or use binoculars if necessary. If you can do this, you may then declare your ball unplayable and proceed accordingly.

If you cannot identify your ball, it is declared lost and you must proceed accordingly.

Just because you saw your ball go into the tree and didn't see it come down doesn't mean the ball is stuck in the tree. It must be identified.

BO
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Old 06-28-2010, 10:14 AM   #27
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

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Originally Posted by ntnBO View Post
It's one of the gray areas in the Rules of Golf. You have to be sure (or pretty damn close) that the ball is in the hazard in order to take relief from such hazard. Otherwise it's a lost ball.

Now not knowing the course and markings, I have no way of knowing exactly how sure you can be in this situation. Is the stream small and marked on both sides in red, or is only the golf course side marked in which case the hazard continues indefinitely through the woods.

Ideally, a course should be marked so that it's not difficult to determine hazard from lost ball in rough terrain.

BO
It's a very small and sometimes dry stream. It is heavily wooded area and the hazard line is only on one side so the harazard is through the woods. In fact I think the identification of it being a lateral is more to speed up play than anything else.

Thanks
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Old 06-28-2010, 10:17 AM   #28
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

While playing a course yesterday, I noticed that they had a small sprinkler head in the middle of one of their greens.
Would one seek a ruling if this head came in between their ball and the cup?
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Old 06-28-2010, 01:08 PM   #29
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

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Originally Posted by ntnBO View Post
I'd rule it was a crappy shot.

First order of business is identifying your ball. You actually have to see where your ball is and confirm the markings visually. You may climb the tree or use binoculars if necessary. If you can do this, you may then declare your ball unplayable and proceed accordingly.

If you cannot identify your ball, it is declared lost and you must proceed accordingly.

Just because you saw your ball go into the tree and didn't see it come down doesn't mean the ball is stuck in the tree. It must be identified.

BO

Two of us saw and identified my ball up in the tree (well, identified it well enough for two rec players to agree that it was prob my ball).

So if the ball is declared unplayable, what happens next and how many (if any) strokes am I assessed?
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Old 06-28-2010, 05:39 PM   #30
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

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Originally Posted by GambleAB View Post
Two of us saw and identified my ball up in the tree (well, identified it well enough for two rec players to agree that it was prob my ball).

So if the ball is declared unplayable, what happens next and how many (if any) strokes am I assessed?
What you did in a recreational setting is just fine. Just keep in mind that according to the letter of the law, you did not identify your ball and would have to proceed under a lost ball penalty.

You have three options in an unplayable lie situation. And in this instance, the point of reference is the spot on the ground directly under where your ball lies in the tree.

1, drop within two-clublengths no nearer the hole.
2, taking the point in line with the hole, you may go straight back as far as you want and drop.
3, replay from your previous position.

All options include a 1-stroke penalty. Therefore if your tee ball lodges in the tree, you will be hitting three on your next shot.

BO
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Old 06-28-2010, 07:48 PM   #31
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

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Originally Posted by ntnBO View Post
What you did in a recreational setting is just fine. Just keep in mind that according to the letter of the law, you did not identify your ball and would have to proceed under a lost ball penalty.

You have three options in an unplayable lie situation. And in this instance, the point of reference is the spot on the ground directly under where your ball lies in the tree.

1, drop within two-clublengths no nearer the hole.
2, taking the point in line with the hole, you may go straight back as far as you want and drop.
3, replay from your previous position.

All options include a 1-stroke penalty. Therefore if your tee ball lodges in the tree, you will be hitting three on your next shot.

BO
Scrolling this thread is great as I have committed to posting all scores according to the rules of golf. Thanks for taking the time for such a great explanation.
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Old 07-03-2010, 01:29 AM   #32
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

Player A is chipping from the fringe or putting, his ball hits player B's ball which is already on the green causing Player B's ball to move significantly and Player A's ball to end up far away from where it "should" have gone.

What is the remedy? Any penalties? (I guess Player B should have marked his spot/picked up ball prior to A's shot? But w/e it didn't happen.)

Bonus Q, not really rules, if you are playing for $X/hole and pressing if a hole is a tie, what do you do if you tie the 18th?
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Old 07-03-2010, 11:55 AM   #33
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

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Player A is chipping from the fringe or putting, his ball hits player B's ball which is already on the green causing Player B's ball to move significantly and Player A's ball to end up far away from where it "should" have gone.

What is the remedy? Any penalties? (I guess Player B should have marked his spot/picked up ball prior to A's shot? But w/e it didn't happen.)
No penalties. Player A plays his ball from where it lies, player B replaces his ball to it's original position.

Quote:
Bonus Q, not really rules, if you are playing for $X/hole and pressing if a hole is a tie, what do you do if you tie the 18th?
A standard Nassau bet is only 18 holes, no extras.

BO
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Old 07-03-2010, 12:13 PM   #34
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

huh, I always thought a penalty was assessed if the other player was putting from on the green but not if they were playing from off the green. good to know. Thanks, BO
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Old 07-03-2010, 05:38 PM   #35
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

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huh, I always thought a penalty was assessed if the other player was putting from on the green but not if they were playing from off the green. good to know. Thanks, BO
Just to be clear here, if player B has a ball on the green and player A is putting or chipping his ball from a lie on the green and hits player B's ball, player A is assessed a 1 stroke penalty. If player A is not on the green he is not penalized.
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Old 07-03-2010, 08:59 PM   #36
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

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Originally Posted by mvoss View Post
Just to be clear here, if player B has a ball on the green and player A is putting or chipping his ball from a lie on the green and hits player B's ball, player A is assessed a 1 stroke penalty. If player A is not on the green he is not penalized.
I always thought it was a 2 stroke penalty.
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Old 07-04-2010, 10:06 AM   #37
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

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I always thought it was a 2 stroke penalty.
I'm an idiot, it's a 2 stroke penalty
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Old 07-16-2010, 03:57 PM   #38
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

I'm playing a par-3 hole with a very difficult shot. I hook the first ball into the woods and assume it's going to be lost or oob.

I hit a provisional and make a great shot that lands on the green (not relevant to the rules question but I can't make this shot one time in ten).

I stupidly go look for the first ball and find it in bounds but unplayable. Chipping it out or any recovery from the woods is impossible, as is dropping within 2 clublengths or going backwards from the spot. The only way I can get relief with this first ball under the unplayable rule is to return to the tee.

Am I correct that I must ignore my provisional ball on the green, which I would be thrilled to lie 3 with, and return to the tee and hit another ball playing 3?
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Old 07-16-2010, 04:10 PM   #39
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

To follow up on Ortho's question... regarding the unplayable rule, well, what is it exactly? How is a ball determined unplayable and what's the proper action?
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Old 07-16-2010, 06:01 PM   #40
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

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Originally Posted by g-bebe View Post
To follow up on Ortho's question... regarding the unplayable rule, well, what is it exactly? How is a ball determined unplayable and what's the proper action?
http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Rule-28/
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Old 07-16-2010, 07:24 PM   #41
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

Yes, you must ignore your provisional once the first ball is found.
It is up to the player to determine whether or not his ball is unplayable.
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Old 07-16-2010, 07:30 PM   #42
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

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Yes, you must ignore your provisional once the first ball is found.
i.e., don't seek for what you hope not to find.
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Old 07-16-2010, 07:39 PM   #43
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

Thanks.

Yeah, it was confusing.

I knew that if I found it in the woods I would have a hard time, even if it was playable, getting it to where the provisional was in two more shots, but I was not sure at the time whether I was supposed to make some kind of effort to find it or if I'm allowed to just calculate that finding it would be -EV. I had no idea that I'm under no obligation to look for it.
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Old 07-16-2010, 08:03 PM   #44
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

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... but I was not sure at the time whether I was supposed to make some kind of effort to find it or if I'm allowed to just calculate that finding it would be -EV. I had no idea that I'm under no obligation to look for it.
Yeah, you can declare it lost without looking for it (or at any time before the 5 min elapses). BUT... an opponent can decide to look for it, and if he identifies it, you must play it. If you refuse to identify the ball should he find it, the issue can be taken to the tournament committee who may rule to DQ you.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
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Old 07-21-2010, 01:24 PM   #45
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

What's the ruling when my club breaks in half before I hit the ball, but the broken part of the club hits the ball and the ball goes about 20 yards?
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Old 07-21-2010, 01:48 PM   #46
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

pretty sure you count the stroke and play the ball as it lies
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Old 07-21-2010, 02:23 PM   #47
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

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What's the ruling when my club breaks in half before I hit the ball, but the broken part of the club hits the ball and the ball goes about 20 yards?
You intended to hit the ball, it's a stroke regardless if you made contact or not.

That being said, I seriously doubt your club broke before contact. Several times my shaft has snapped at the head during contact resulting in a most interesting sensation, the ball does fly halfway decent however.

BO
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Old 07-26-2010, 11:19 AM   #48
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

My Neighbor was playing last week and two rulings came up and there was some discussion as to how to procede. It was a 2 day match play event.

This was from his email.

I have two scenarios for you;



1) My Opponent, who played on Sunday, hit his tee shot off of #16 and landed against the barn on the left. Actually, it was partly under the edge of the barn. The barn on that side is supported by beams to hold the end of the barn up. What is the ruling on dropping a ball? Is the barn part of the course or is it a man-made object? Does he get a two club relief from the barn or temporary supports?...or can he go back as far as he wants in line of flight to have a better shot to the top of the hill? He went back and dropped with a better line of sight to the hill. (I disagree)



2) On Saturday, I hit my second shot on #4 and it hit the bank near the green, bounced off and landed on the foot wide grass area between the stone wall and the paved cart path. The ball was approximately 3” away from the wall. A) Is the stone wall part of the course or man made?...and I had to stand on the cart path to hit the shot. Is there relief without penalty and if so, where is the closest point of relief because the wall runs along the cart path. (Rick said I don’t get relief and I played the ball where it lied. I disagreed but where would I get the relief?)


My first thoughts were that in #1 line of sight rule would only apply if he declared the ball unplayable. Now if he wanted relief from this unmoveable opject he can only take 1 club length no nearer the hole. If he didn't drop correctly it is lose of the hole in match play?

For #2, I don't know how the wall plays into wether he can take relief from the path.

Thoughts?

H
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Old 07-26-2010, 11:54 AM   #49
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

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Originally Posted by ntnBO View Post
You intended to hit the ball, it's a stroke regardless if you made contact or not.

When I was in High School, I played in a local golf league on Sunday mornings. Rules were often discussed after rounds over beers (none for me, thank you) and lunch. The week before, one of the guys had made an abbreviated swing in the under-brush because he had a tree in his backswing. On the downswing, he missed the ball and hit a bunch of pine needles and other loose impediments without moving the ball. Obviously this is a stroke, but the important part is that there was discussion about it. The argument lasted quite a while and actually got pretty heated. The rulebook was finally broken out by this one high handicapper (he was a real chop) and he read the rule and then explained that it was a stroke because "it was an attempt to hit the ball." One of the guys arguing against it, who is obviously wrong, kinda rolls his eyes and gives a whatever and orders another beer.

The next week, we're all around the first tee and the high handicapper from the week before is on the tee. He makes a couple practice swings and gets up and addresses the ball. He swings and WHOOOOOOSH and before anyone can even laugh at him, the other guy that had rolled his eyes says in his Jersey/Italian accent and in the most serious and snide manner "Was that an attempt?"

Instantaneous laughter through the whole lot of us.
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Old 08-10-2010, 09:12 AM   #50
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Re: *** Official Rules Questions/Issues Thread ***

Me and a friend are playing in a 6 game match-play championship at the moment. Winner chooses the end-of-season course to play, loser pays. This happened during our match this past weekend and neither of us were quite sure how to proceed.

On the back 9 of our second match my opponent hits a layup shot to about 100 yards, we observe the ball land and run out into the rough. As he is waiting for the other 3 of us to hit our shots, someone pulls their golf cart next up to his ball, gets out and pockets it and then continues on. (They were playing the next hole, a par 4 that runs perpendicular to this one) When my opponent gets to where he saw his ball land, it's not there. He calls over the perpetrators but they deny taking his golf ball.

Quote:
18-1. By Outside Agency

If a ball at rest is moved by an outside agency, there is no penalty and the ball must be replaced.

Note: It is a question of fact whether a ball has been moved by an outside agency. In order to apply this Rule, it must be known or virtually certain that an outside agency has moved the ball. In the absence of such knowledge or certainty, the player must play the ball as it lies or, if the ball is not found, proceed under Rule 27-1.
Does 18-1 include the ball being pocketed?

My play: I didn't know what the rule was, but I told my partner to drop another ball, no penalty. I was certain that his ball was taken and so was he, so it felt like the fair thing to do for someone with no knowledge of the rule (and no rule book in his bag, yah yah)
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