I remember someone on tour doing that (maybe there's a video somewhere) and camera got a good close up and it's pretty drastic up and down movement with the ball, but pretty sure they didn't give him a penalty because they said the ball returned to where it was.

I got a good one I've been wanting to share, let me see if I can draw it a little.

Played U.S. open local qualifier. Course played ridiculously hard because they picked up every hazard stake and played no hazards (except for a couple ponds). Most holes it was either stripe it down the middle or lose your ball and re tee until you do hit it down the middle.

Red line is just a guide to where the hazard is (where its played during normal play) there's not a hazard line, just normally stakes

So I miss my 2nd shot 2 feet to the right from 220 on this par 4 and it rolls down the slope to the right in what would normally be a hazard. Easily playable, just gnarly grass and weeds. But my ball (purple dot) is right up against a stake (brown line) they forgot to pick up. The stake is laying on the ground, not vertical. Not sure I can move it without moving my ball.

Not sure if he was an official or just a spotter, but there was one back in the fairway and I got him to come over and look at it. I asked him to make sure it wasn't a hazard and if I could move the stake. He just walks over and grabs the stake and throws it in his cart. Ball doesn't move. LOL 1st problem solved.

So I'm standing in a hole as I take my stance (black dot) I look at it and it kind of looks like a snake hole but I'm not sure, it's obviously from an animal though. I ask him if this is a burrowing animal hole, and he laughs like I'm half kidding. I can get easily get out of the gnarly grass with a club length. I ask him again and we get into it a little bit and I say fine I'll just make par from here. I kinda hood my SW a little and chop and run it up on the green about 7feet and make a nice par putt.

So is a snake a burrowing animal hole?

Should an official move something from by a players ball like that?

bump ???

My understanding is that snakes do not burrow their own holes. They do typically take over holes burrowed by rodents. So you still need to determine if the hole was made by some burrowing animal or play it as it lies.

A snake is not a burrowing animal hole. A snake is an animal and a hole is, well, a hole.

All that really matters is if the hole in question is deemed a burrowing animal hole, not really sure how a possible snake fits into all this. Apparently this guy didn't think it was, and of course you were entitled to a second opinion should you have wished.

Thinking he should not have removed the stake himself, but if he had a cart he was probably an official of some sort.

When you described the course I instantly knew what and where you were talking about. What hole did you have 220 into? Can only see 13 and 17 and don't remember a hazard that close to the right of 17 green. Can see 220 into 13 if you laid up and didn't catch it, that's a weird driving hole and then a weird second shot. Certainly a great par nonetheless.

BO

converted par 5 on front, like hole 5 or 6. marker on tee said 490 something

practice round hit a good drive and a 7 iron, qualifier wind was twice as strong and quartering in more

There's a hazard to the right of #7 green? Weird, getting old sucks.

I just assumed it was over 90 that day.

I just had too many things going on to play, wish I would have. Thought about how I would get it around and just decided to hit a lot of 3-woods off the tee, and that was before hearing about how it was marked. 4,6,7 for sure, less than that on 5 and 15. Play it by ear on 9 and 13.

BO

Trying to figure out if 25-1c (ball lost in abnormal ground condition) could have applied during a round today.

Player A hits his 2nd shot on a par 5 just left of the fairway but right of the cart path. The cart path has been recently refinished and the area near where the ball supposedly landed still has some bare areas covered by a little straw and the ground near the cart path is generally softer than normal given the recent renovation. That said, this isnt the kind of golf course that ever marks GUR nor has a pro that would declare anything as such.

If the ball had been found resting on straw or in bare dirt next to cart path we would typically give relief with no issues. In today's case player A was the only person who saw his shot among the threesome but the other players have no reason to think he would cheat/lie. However the shot was 200-220 in the air so it may have been difficult to determine exact landing.

I was not player A and would have been happy to apply this rule here if applicable but i just wasnt sure in this spot given the questions surrounding where the ball actually landed and whether or not this is even GUR.

I should also note that there were quite wet areas close where a ball easily could have been lost but if it landed where he said it did it also could have plugged there as well. Thougts?

Hit a blind tee shot. Got up to the ball on the right edge of the fairway, a spot invisible from the tee. Right after I hit my second shot, a group from an adjacent, parallel fairway drives up and asks if I had seen their ball. They identify it as the one I just hit. At this time, my partner sees my tee ball in the rough, about 20 yards ahead and to the right of where I played my second.

Penalty/procedures for both groups?

For them that's a free drop back where you hit from. For you it's a two stroke penalty or loss of hole in match play. You then play your ball as normal.
FYI you are allowed to mark and pick up a ball if you need to do that to make sure it's yours.

Bump

Only the club can declare areas of GUR. Assuming you three chose it ignore that and declair your own GUR "Known or virtually certain" seems to be the key phrase. Only one guy saw it from two hundred yards away, dosen't sound very certain to me. Having said that in a friendly round I wouldn't start an argument about it if he was insistent.

My thought is that if you miss the fairway you deserve to be ****ed.

Sounds like it should easily be GUR or perhaps cartpath extended. But that's not the real issue it seems, you have to ask yourselves if there is reasonable evidence that the ball is in the GUR. Only the person who struck the shot claims he saw it enter, it appears there are other areas nearby that the ball could be hiding in. So just how certain is the group that the ball is lost in the GUR?

From the description given, I'd have to say lost ball. But in these situations you almost have to have seen the shot and the actual lay of the land to make a truly informed decision. And that's difficult to do through the internet.

Sure, but the golfer also has the right to ask an official (in this case someone in the shop) if a certain non-marked area qualifies as GUR as it's easy to miss smallish abnormal ground conditions. And amongst knowledgeable golfers, a little bit of common sense goes a long way in making this kind of determination.

BO

Help me out BO!
Player is in a fairway bunker and hits his ball into a dicey looking area. Decides that the ball maybe unfindable so he plays a provisional and drops in the bunker. When the player goes to look for his original ball he finds that the area is defined as a lateral hazard by red stakes but this was previously unknown to the player. Options (or not) at this point?
Thanks.

Get some lessons so that you don't hit balls into bunkers and dicey areas?

You hit a provisional for a lost ball, however a ball cannot be lost in a lateral hazard. Therefore the provisional ball no longer exists and you proceed according to the rules of a lateral hazard. No penalty for hitting the provisional.

BO

I was playing at PGA West Palm Springs. Hit my second shot which looks to be perfect but catches the top lip of the bunker. When I get there no ball in bunker. It had gone under the lip of the bunker and plugged very deep. The only way to get it was to remove grass though we could not see it.

Rule?

sounds like an unplayable lie to me, since you found your ball. if you could never find it, it'd be lost.

keep spot where ball was resting/plugged between you and hole and move back as far as you'd like, but since you're in the sand hazard, you must drop in the hazard. or you can move two club lengths no closer to hole, but still within hazard. or of course you can re-hit from original spot.

someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty confident that's it.

I never found the ball. I could have but would have to damage the grass on the lip. My buddies said same as you drop it in the sand.

Ironman pin placings; play just after a couple days of heavy rain.
Par three, tee shot embeds just above the hole middle of a slope in the green. Mark ball, repair mark, place ball and it rolls about fifteen inches and into the hole. What now.

not sure on the amount of time (if there's even any) but if you set it down, and it's stationary, then moves, just play it from where it ends up

If the ball won't stay where it's supposed to then find closest spot not nearer to the hole where it won't move and put it there.

DRAINOOOO

Par 3, I tee off from the bottom of the picture and hit a huge hook where it comes to rest against the fence on the upper left of the picture. Other side of the fence is out of bounds. What do I do? The nearest place where I can get my club on the ball, not closer to the hole, is about 20 yards away since the fence sort of curves perpendicular to the hole.

So it appears you want to proceed as your ball is in an unplayable like. If so, you have three options under the rules.

1, drop within two clublengths no nearer the hole.
2, from where the ball currently is, you may go as far back as you want from the hole keeping that point in line with the pin.
3, replay from the previous location.

All of these incur a one shot penalty.

Choice 1 is apparently impossible from what you say, choice 2 is also impossible since you cannot go backwards. Therefore choice 3 is your only option, re-tee hitting 3.

BO

Ok, that's what I thought.

From a strategy perspective, is it better to declare it unplayable and rehit or is it better to try to just whack it against the fence and get it to bounce out a little bit?