That 1st hole drops downhill pretty hard so he probably hit way less than driver.

Yeah I just noticed everyone hits it 350 on that hole. Probably iron for him

dustin johnson hit the wrong ball out of the hazard... and there's no penalty?? new rules???

ok, as i was typing this it turns out the announcer was completely wrong and corrected himself .... 2 shot penalty

cameron champ hits down on his driver......... did i hear that correctly? gonna dvr backwards and find out

that's probably correct and i think champ has a very low launch angle

what happened to optimal driver launch = high launch and low spin (i assume champ can't be low spin if he hits down on it even it's just slightly)?? i find it confusing

the penalty is a new(ish?) rule... used to be no penalty

I think he's just that much of a beast that he can hit it way farther than anyone else despite sub-optimal launch conditions.

At first I couldn't understand this rule change, but I believe they also let you identify a ball in a hazard so I guess it makes sense.

yeah under old rules a ball buried in the sand where you couldn't see identifying markings had to be identified after the shot... now you identify before you hit it or you take the penalty if it turns out to be the wrong ball

The drop from knee height looks strange. I originally thought you could drop it from any height above the knee but was wrong. Leaving the stick looks fine

Isn't his swing speed like higher than everyone else on tour? If he hit with optimal launch numbers he probably out drives everyone on tour by like 40 yards

thanks.......... i wasn't aware of any of that - old or new.

i looked up cam champ's swing speed - however they measure that i.e. i assume it's hole(s) where everyone is going at it with driver.

anyway, cam is 5 mph faster than any of the others, his fastest swing is about 5 mph fastest than any of the others. there is the 5 mph gap between cam and the rest who are tightly bunched themselves. reminds me of luke donald's old putting stats where he was miles ahead of the other players.

so 5 mph is think would be something like 13 yards, maybe up to 15 yards.

i didn't actually check cam's driving yardage as i assumed that would be affected also by what tourney you play - whereas presumably swing speed wouldn't be.

i get the idea that pga pro's don't hit anywhere nearly as up on the ball as instructional articles wouid suggest. i think hitting way up on the ball is for LPGA players and similar SS.

FWIW, i seem to have a hard time finding my contact point with a high tee and the ball moved way up. so a recent golf outing i just teed it up fairly low and swung like 3 wood and was VERY HAPPY with the result... on the canadian tour, there was a fairly successful player who didn't tee up his driver. not sure if he did grass tee or not.

i've seen this trackman data before.... suggests average pga pro hits 1.3% down on driver. lpga 3.0% up on driver. (note: i think it's degrees, not %).... that data i think is old, but not sure what would have changed.

https://blog.trackmangolf.com/trackm...ge-tour-stats/

any idea how much higher women would tee a driver? also, curious as to the attack angle of long drivers. i think bubba is way up, but he's pretty wild for pga tour.

Most PGA Tour players are going for more accuracy, therefore they hit slightly down on driver. Bubba is an exception, upwards of 5 degrees up.

As already stated, LPGA players tend to hit up on it.


The rule for identifying a ball in a hazard was changed at least 2 years ago if not 4.

I was thinking more like a decade

NTN, thanks.......

the announcers were pointing out tway and champ as hitting down significantly on driver (i may have neglected to mention that, also i think it was implied)

i think champ has a very low launch angle. but i noticed looking at numbers that his smash factor is also higher than the other players (which i think would be consistent with lower ball flight). then the other players benefit from lower spin and increased hang time (offset by less roll)...

anway, i think if you told someone that there's a guy in college in texas with much lower launch angle than pga pro's but can it much further than any of them, people would have said "no way" (unless he was 6 foot 10 or something like that)

btw, if you've never checked out kevin tway's swing, he really goes after it hard. fairly unique

i checked launch angles on pgatour.com and this is what i found... note: i didn't know it was a tracked stat.

low launch angles:

tway 8.6
champ 7.2 (2nd lowest on tour)
uhlein 7.0 (lowest on tour)

high launch angles:

danny lee 15.7
fowler 14.5
horschell 14.4
molinari 14.2

they also track lowest launch angle of season. cam = 4, lee/fowler/molinari are each 14....

i can't find my notes on this but champ and other low launch angle players were in the 10-11 for highest launch angle. so they do go higher and there might be some measurement biases (i.e. he hits more irons off the tee, even on long drive holes)

longest drivers = mix of low and high launch angles. alot of long drivers are near tour average of 11.5 or so..

I didn't realize this, I guess I should really pay more attention to the rules. Fortunately it hasn't come up for me in a tournament since the 90's.

This round from Chez Reavie is insane. 3 eagles on par 4s, all hole out from >100 yards.

***** crazy...has holed out from 101, 135, and 149 yards.

Still not nearly as good as Kim Jong Il.

i get them confused. but reminds me of flesch or lowery at the international (colorado, waterford scoring) in 2003ish. 2 eagles from a long way away - at least one of them was from very far away.

I have never played an event that uses Waterford scoring, I assume that the rules are crystal clear?

i think you can do better than this

i wanted to laugh but no sound would come out of my mouth.