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Official 2012 PGA Tour (non-majors) discussion thread Official 2012 PGA Tour (non-majors) discussion thread

02-24-2012 , 02:04 AM
I said Tiger was going to have a career year, and I meant it, but I'd like to take it back and be punched in the face every time he either misses a putt within 6 feet, hooks it onto a different course, or has to hit a shot lefty.
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02-24-2012 , 02:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdBratz66
I said Tiger was going to have a career year, and I meant it, but I'd like to take it back and be punched in the face every time he either misses a putt within 6 feet, hooks it onto a different course, or has to hit a shot lefty.
Good luck on 2012. I'm sure you'll be okay. What, you worry?:

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02-24-2012 , 07:50 AM
Tiger should switch to the belly putter.
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02-24-2012 , 09:45 AM
I'd be curious to hear from the golfing sharps as to whether they think it's mental with Tiger, or has he just lost his game. Why would somebody with that type of dominating game ever be inclined to change their swing?
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02-24-2012 , 09:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdBratz66
I'd be curious to hear from the golfing sharps as to whether they think it's mental with Tiger, or has he just lost his game.
I think it's largely mental. He is still hitting it plenty well enough to win, the putting just isn't the same. It's pretty standard for putting to deteriorate as you age, but I (and almost everyone else) thought TW would be an exception to that for the most part. I guess I would lean towards him mentally not being the same with the putter, hence all the changes he is making trying to figure it out.


Quote:
Why would somebody with that type of dominating game ever be inclined to change their swing?
This is silly. People said the same thing in 1998 when he did the overhaul with Butch and then again with the switch to Haney. Both changes resulted in unbelievable stretches of golf. TW is in search of perfection. He wants to be able to hit any shot at any time. Is it an unrealistic goal? Maybe, but I think it's what drives him to work as hard as he has over his career.
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02-24-2012 , 09:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdBratz66
I'd be curious to hear from the golfing sharps as to whether they think it's mental with Tiger, or has he just lost his game. Why would somebody with that type of dominating game ever be inclined to change their swing?
There is definately a large mental aspect to it for Tiger right now. He has lost his belief that he is completely invincable.

He, and many others, have changed their swings when it seemed to outsiders that they shouldn't.
I'm guessing his new swing puts a lot less wear on his left knee.

He hit two topnotch shots into the 18th yesterday. Looked very confident with both swings, but the putter has a way to go.

Chamblee had an interesting theory about it yesterday. Wonder if anyone else caught it and has an opinion.

Basically that bowing the wrist (at impact) in full swing leads to the inability to release the putter.
I bought it.
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02-24-2012 , 10:02 AM
I often wonder if Harrington regrets his swing change. His exemptions to Majors and such will be ending next year (I think). Currently 87th in the OWGR.

Edit:- Mind you, he has shown some glimpses of form this year. I hope he can get back to challenging the big boys but not holding my breath.

Last edited by kevin21; 02-24-2012 at 10:11 AM.
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02-24-2012 , 10:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JTrout
Chamblee had an interesting theory about it yesterday. Wonder if anyone else caught it and has an opinion.

Basically that bowing the wrist (at impact) in full swing leads to the inability to release the putter.
I bought it.
Chamblee is completely FOS. He knows less about the golf swing than random Joe Pro teaching at the local muni. Basically he throws **** on the wall hoping something will stick. He has been called out over and over and over again for literally having no idea what he is talking about.
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02-24-2012 , 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by ntnBO
To appease the masses, TGC should air a replay of the final round instead of live Accenture coverage.
Sadly, the ratings would likely be higher. My thoughts so far:

- No one will remember, but a great (almost) comeback by Fowler in Rd. 1 to Toms that fell just short. All that will be remembered is that he lost, not that he probably had a top 10 round. Yeah, yeah... match play.
- I know he lost, but every time I see Keegan Bradley, he's hitting some long iron/hybrid into a par 5 to 15 feet (and then missing the eagle putt, but still).
- Not really a Tiger hater, but am looking forward to the rest of the tournament from a TV coverage POV. Coverage should be one shot after another (maybe 10-15 seconds) in this format. With TW, we get 60 seconds on him, plus countless replays. Then, we get a comment like, "And Els and Stricker both missed their birdie putts and tapped in for par... still all square, going to extra holes."
- I really miss TW old putting stroke (wider stance, cupped left wrist) and all his short game swings. Not sure why those had to change because of the new full swing (which admittedly needed work).
- If Oosthuizen walked around wearing a bicycle helmet and grinning all the time... I wouldn't bat an eye.
- F*** those grainy greens... and the valley.
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02-24-2012 , 11:22 AM
"I'm taking (it) back shut going back," he explained. "I need to make that toe move. And I need to feel the release of my stroke. And it's hard to release it when the blade is going under. It's shut. And hence I block it open."

OKay Tiger
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02-24-2012 , 11:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spenda
I can just see Ship raging right now, even though I know he agrees about the Chervon thing. That's what happens when you hitch yourself to the devil's wagon.
Agrees? I was the first one to say that win was a joke and championed the cause that he isn’t back…more to come below.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shemp
The problem is the putts just aren't falling. He putts decent (not good) and he beats Watney 4&3.
I know you know this…but putting is part of the game. If I putt decent I beat Watney 4&3 yesterday and the last hole I played was in October.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdBratz66
I'd be curious to hear from the golfing sharps as to whether they think it's mental with Tiger, or has he just lost his game. Why would somebody with that type of dominating game ever be inclined to change their swing?
I have said this many times and stand by it. It is all mental with him. Not mental in the sense that he has lost his confidence, but mental in the fact he is not as good of a grinder as he was. Watch the 2008 US Open, or any tourney prior to ’09 and watch his putting routine. He reads the putt and then pauses behind the ball for about 3-5 seconds visualizing and having god knows what mental chatter while behind the ball. He then moves in takes his 2 practice strokes slides up to the ball, 2 looks and lets it go. From the time he takes his first step to the ball to impact is within .3 seconds EVERY SINGLE TIME. Now he reads the putt from his crouch and just moves straight into the putt without the visualization/who knows what is going on in his head portion of the routine.

However, watch Chevron’s final round. His routine is still a complete mess until the last 2 holes. On those two putts (which he made if you don’t remember) he had the visualization component to his routine. He was in “super-Tiger grind your face into the dirt I am going to kick your ****ing ass” mode. Those two putts were the only reason I gave him any chance of being “back”. He had the mental component that makes him who he is for 2 holes. I really thought he might watch the film and see it but he obviously didn’t or can’t implement it. It is hard to be that focused for 72 holes, but that is what used to separate him from the rest. He is still better than anyone else on Tour which is the only reason he can still compete even with his game in such poor shape. Until I see him play 72 holes with that Tiger focus I can assure you he will not be the same player he was before. Win or no win, he will not dominate until he has his focus back.

He hit his driver all over the lot for years with Haney and it didn’t slow down his win rate. He still is great with the irons, but the rest of his game is so bad (for him) it is really quite amazing.
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02-24-2012 , 11:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Your Boss
Chamblee is completely FOS. He knows less about the golf swing than random Joe Pro teaching at the local muni. Basically he throws **** on the wall hoping something will stick. He has been called out over and over and over again for literally having no idea what he is talking about.
Can't speak to other topics he's talked about, but in my experience he's dead on this time.
Yesterday in post-round interview, Tiger said putting is easy to fix.
We'll see.
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02-24-2012 , 11:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamMaster
Tiger should switch to the belly putter.
Agreed,
or Claw, imo.

ps. will never happen
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02-24-2012 , 11:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ship---this
I have said this many times and stand by it. It is all mental with him. Not mental in the sense that he has lost his confidence, but mental in the fact he is not as good of a grinder as he was. Watch the 2008 US Open, or any tourney prior to ’09 and watch his putting routine. He reads the putt and then pauses behind the ball for about 3-5 seconds visualizing and having god knows what mental chatter while behind the ball. He then moves in takes his 2 practice strokes slides up to the ball, 2 looks and lets it go. From the time he takes his first step to the ball to impact is within .3 seconds EVERY SINGLE TIME. Now he reads the putt from his crouch and just moves straight into the putt without the visualization/who knows what is going on in his head portion of the routine.

However, watch Chevron’s final round. His routine is still a complete mess until the last 2 holes. On those two putts (which he made if you don’t remember) he had the visualization component to his routine. He was in “super-Tiger grind your face into the dirt I am going to kick your ****ing ass” mode. Those two putts were the only reason I gave him any chance of being “back”. He had the mental component that makes him who he is for 2 holes. I really thought he might watch the film and see it but he obviously didn’t or can’t implement it. It is hard to be that focused for 72 holes, but that is what used to separate him from the rest. He is still better than anyone else on Tour which is the only reason he can still compete even with his game in such poor shape. Until I see him play 72 holes with that Tiger focus I can assure you he will not be the same player he was before. Win or no win, he will not dominate until he has his focus back.

He hit his driver all over the lot for years with Haney and it didn’t slow down his win rate. He still is great with the irons, but the rest of his game is so bad (for him) it is really quite amazing.
Great read!
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02-24-2012 , 11:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shemp
The problem is the putts just aren't falling. He putts decent (not good) and he beats Watney 4&3. Clearly, his left-handed game is ready for the GOAT to GOAT. [elided portion re-inserted]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ship---this
I know you know this…but putting is part of the game. If I putt decent I beat Watney 4&3 yesterday and the last hole I played was in October.


I know that you know that I know, but what I don't know is if you know that I thought I was making a similar point.

If Nick Watney putts anywhere decent he would have beat Nick Watney 4&3 -- and without hitting it left handed!
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02-24-2012 , 12:22 PM
Love your posts ship
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02-24-2012 , 12:56 PM
Tiger has succeeded in spite of his swing changes. He went from hitting 70% of fairways while being longer than anyone on tour to 50% while becoming relatively shorter.

His habit of long distance running every morning contributed as much to knee damage as his golf swing. The "new" swing being easier on his left knee sounds like hocus pocus. If all you want is less knee torque, open up your left foot.
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02-24-2012 , 01:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dzh90
Tiger has succeeded in spite of his swing changes. He went from hitting 70% of fairways while being longer than anyone on tour to 50% while becoming relatively shorter.

His habit of long distance running every morning contributed as much to knee damage as his golf swing. The "new" swing being easier on his left knee sounds like hocus pocus. If all you want is less knee torque, open up your left foot.
I couldn't carry it as well as you, but I feel like I've already lost the argument about 3-4 times over whether all he needs to do is putt better.

That stretch of holes where he hit the ball really well on the back wouldn't have happened if he'd have been closed out by 14. At least then I wouldn't have to read about him missing putts again.

His game seems generally inconsistent (except for the left-handed punch, which is rock solid). He's still amazing enough to compete and win, but I don't see how the nut-huggers saw him on the brink of reestablishing his previous domination.
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02-24-2012 , 01:51 PM
I haven't put much stock into his putting struggles, but I tend to think something will "click" and he'll be fine on the greens. It's just strange to see the GOAT reinvent his game so many times. How many guys have been successful with even one overhaul?

the most common story we hear is a guy tries to make a major change, struggles for a couple years, goes back to his natural swing and all is well. Tiger is good enough to do it but I don't think it's very smart. for the record his haney swing is by far the worst

see padraig, payne stewart, phil, martin kaymer last year

I wonder what's going to happen to Gary Woodland now that butch is trying to get him to hit down on the ball and draw it. His scores lately are not good. He was hitting it 330+ with a "wipe fade," oh no better change it...
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02-24-2012 , 02:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shemp


I know that you know that I know, but what I don't know is if you know that I thought I was making a similar point.

If Nick Watney putts anywhere decent he would have beat Nick Watney 4&3 -- and without hitting it left handed!
4th level thinking ITT
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02-24-2012 , 02:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shemp
His game seems generally inconsistent (except for the left-handed punch, which is rock solid). He's still amazing enough to compete and win, but I don't see how the nut-huggers saw him on the brink of reestablishing his previous domination.
The ballstriking has been better (in streaks) than it has been in quite awhile. He hit a ton of fw's and greens the first 3 rounds at Abu Dhabi, then was leading the field in GIR's through 63 holes at Pebble. If he had putted like he did circa 2000 he would've won both events by 5+ shots.
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02-24-2012 , 02:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Your Boss
The ballstriking has been better (in streaks) than it has been in quite awhile. He hit a ton of fw's and greens the first 3 rounds at Abu Dhabi, then was leading the field in GIR's through 63 holes at Pebble. If he had putted like he did circa 2000 he would've won both events by 5+ shots.
The only issue I have with his leading GIR at Pebble is the fact that he rarely hits driver there. So with a shorter course he hits fewer drivers and thus is probably in play more. I don't know what the FW% stats were from that week, but I bet there is some sort of explanation. As I said earlier, his irons are still pretty good for the most part but his lack of ability with the driver is the biggest long game issue.

I just can't believe how many shots he actually loses the grip on the golf club. His body language is soooooo defeated with any bad shot that to me it is finally starting to weigh no him.

Sure he has sprayed the driver for years, but now with no putting and a poor short game it is a major leak to also drive it poorly.
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02-24-2012 , 02:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Your Boss
The ballstriking has been better (in streaks) than it has been in quite awhile. He hit a ton of fw's and greens the first 3 rounds at Abu Dhabi, then was leading the field in GIR's through 63 holes at Pebble. If he had putted like he did circa 2000 he would've won both events by 5+ shots.
Does that mean he would have shot 61 on Sunday at Pebble if he could make anything? 29 or 30 on the front?


j/k
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02-24-2012 , 02:49 PM
I'm pretty amazed Tiger doesn't hit the driver less than he does. Look at Hoylake and how he dominated despite hitting driver only once the entire tourney (iirc).

I thought that was going to be the dawning of a new age where Tiger would be hitting far more 2i / 3w off the tee and accepting that he would be better off hitting 6i from the fairway consistently vs 9i from the rough or behind a tree...
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02-24-2012 , 02:50 PM
lol i had the volume dwn on the tv look up and all i see is tiger fist pumping and making putts.

my first reaction was tilt thinking they were already trying to make up for him being bounced or marketing for the honda.

thank god they were talkn bout him sucking.
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