When I was fitting, we did not have Paderson in our current matrix although we did at one time as the back room had quite a few older models. The guys that had been in the business for years had nothing but good things to say about them however.

But I do have a minor rant upcoming, and it's something I've seen on this forum quite a few times.

Why do people pay to get properly fit, and then instead of having the club properly built according to spec, try to scrounge the parts used or cheap online or whatever and then have it put together half ass? That's really defeating the purpose.

For one thing, you can get driver heads in different weights. They don't make them all the exact same weight. Depending on your fit, you might want a slightly lighter or heavier head than standard. And then there's shaft, how do you know exactly how long it should be? And how it should be tipped? And then how the grip you pick will affect the swing weight? These are all reasons why you pay someone to fit you and then have that club built perfectly.

I'd love to see everyone here get properly fit and then have their clubs do magical things for them. But if you get fit and then half ass the build process, the club won't do near what it should for you.

Rant over.

I've got a little rant... about our new range ball machine. Apparently it double charges sometimes. Also, regarding the range situation more broadly, in general a third or so of the balls it you get are very worn down, sometimes with the dimples almost completely gone, and yet they keep jacking up the price.

But the thing I find most incredible, and maybe this is typical elsewhere, but the machine doesn't have any type of indicator when there are no balls left, so if you do get charged and no balls come out you have to go to the shop for a refund. How hard is to to build a machine that has a simple light or anything of that nature to indicate there aren't enough balls in the machine in this day and age. I find that amazing, I really do. Seems like just the most simple, obvious, basic, common sense feature on a ball machine you could possibly think of. To make matters worse, the card reader often fails, no matter the card. If a new person uses the machine, how would they be able to distinguish between a card swipe error and the machine being empty if they were forewarned that you have to keep trying your card when it doesn't work on the first swipe?

Their setup is really nice. I had seen it before when I was volunteering for the ladies event. It sits on the right edge of the driving range. When fitting is in use it does cut the size of the range were people can hit my a 1/4. Maybe a 1/3 if the people getting fit suck. One thing I didn't notice before is they have villas past the fitting studio where what I assume out-of-town members can stay.

Here is my rebuttal to that. If they can guarantee me that they include the shaft that the stock head comes in (so I can sell it on the side) then at least it would be close. I would call myself good in this area so I know what I am doing.

Second thing (still waiting on that build sheet 36 hours later) is I saw the quote for the shaft of $330 on the build sheet when I was there. I found it for $279 on the manufacturers website. I guess if you add it tip prep and installation of the adapter you could add in another $25. So I'm looking at $305 compared to $330. It's close.

Like I said if they can guarantee me the give me the other shaft then fine. Last time I bought irons directly from them I asked for the S300 they originally came in, they never showed.

I did a fitting with true spec 2 weeks ago. They charged me $200 for the fitting, $450 for the shaft, $550 for the head, then like another $150 in misc stuff and quoted me 4-6 weeks on the build.

I got the shaft new for $325 and head with shop credit and had it built in 10 days total. I can tinker with the swing weight if need be.

If they weren’t so backed up I may have considered it for convenience. But 4-6 weeks with the parts in stock is a tease.

There's absolutely no way they've been calling it that for 21 years. I feel like it"s been within the last 5 years or so

It was always formally The Open Championship, but was only recent (4-5ish years?) that they got anal about cracking down on the media calling it the British Open.

this vid gives a good lesson of the history of this particular tournament and what it should be called, as described by the current pro from the first course that ever hosted it.

Just going from our prices when I was in the business. $279 for the shaft, $20 for the tip installed, $10 shipping on the shaft, $8-$14 for the grip is $317-$323. Definitely in the ballpark.

Some top fitters these days have heads only accounts where the manufacturer ships heads only, no shafts. (Ping is a notable holdout, they will only ship with shaft attached) This makes it much easier to build clubs as the fitting builder does not have to remove iron shafts and then clean out the hosel, etc. Much better and easier to affix a shaft to a virgin head.

So then you may ask, if the club doesn't come with a shaft then I should be charged less. But club companies have minimum advertised price(MAP) where you cannot charge a customer less than that or risk losing your account. Some club companies use secret shoppers to ensure that this is not happening and accounts have been lost in this way. 99% of retailers currently sell clubs at MAP, so they can't go any lower.

Occasionally, a customer buying a driver would request the stock shaft as well for varying reasons. Not a big deal, we'd simply order the club with the shaft (obviously with modern tips you have zero issues compared to irons), and give the customer the stock shaft loose with his fitted driver. Possible downside to the customer is delivery time if we already had that head in stock. Regardless, zero issue for us.

What most golfers don't understand is how cheap stock driver shafts are. It costs the manufacturers roughly $8 to produce the stock shaft. Very thin, very little carbon, mass manufactured with low tolerances. Totally different from after market shafts. And yes, I know what they sell for on eBay, etc.

Now iron shafts can be a little different. Stock graphite shafts are pretty crappy just like drivers and shouldn't be worth much. But stock TT's for example have value. Can easily sell a pull out TT for $25, so a set with 8 irons would be $200 of possible value.

A fitter shouldn't care if you want the stock driver shaft, it doesn't change the work required. But it can make a difference in irons if the company has a heads only account which True Spec almost certainly would. I think it's fair to ask about this as a possible bargaining chip, but also think it's fair if you want the pull outs for the fitter to charge you more because it makes more work for them.

Am hoping you have the build sheet by now.


Depending on manufacturer and certain models, factories are still trying to catch up from Covid shutdowns. I've heard of several months of backlogs that they are trying to work through. Just saying it may or may not have been a tease.

$450 for the shaft and then other charges? What shaft was it? Non-tour Obans and Graphite Designs aren't that much per MAP pricing. So let's see, that leaves high end Mitsubishi or VA Composites, possibly a tour issue Graphite Design. Would love to see the itemized quote on that one.

IIRC ESPN has been calling it the Open Championship since the mid-90s. They alone constitute about a third of media coverage of the event, since ABC/ESPN has had the event exclusively since that time. I'm not sure when AP switched, but it's been a while, certainly more than 5 years.

FWIW cbssports.com still calls it "British Open" on their menus, but in all of their articles uses "Open Championship".

Most people don't know but branding was almost exclusively "Open Golf Championship" until around 1990. "The Open" is trademarked and has been used by the R&A since then.

Just received it now. Here is breakdown:

G425 LST 9* - $499
Paderson Kevlar Ballistic TP KGTP D40X - $325
Tour Velvet 360 - $10
Shipping - $80!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
SST Pure - $30 (not going to do that)
Build Fee - $10
Tax - $63.98
Total - $1017.98

Ping rep came out for a demo day last Saturday, but called our pro earlier in week and made sure he still wanted him to come out; told him folks would be lucky to get an order by November, maybe even December.

Shaft is a Diamana DF 70 TX (so mitsubishi). They quoted me $450 for the shaft, which my buddy got me for $325 brand new. Looks like you can get it for about $360 ($400 listed price) pretty easily online new... so that was not really in the ballpark.

Other additional fees were shipping $35, Fitting Fee $200 (I'm fine to pay it broadly, but know a lot of competitors wave it if you buy clubs), puring for $30, which I don't think is necessary on a shaft of that quality, but I'm sure people would argue, and $10 on build fees.

So really just an oddly overpriced shaft. And I realize places are behind, but 6 weeks when everything is in stock (as I was told) seems a bit brutal during prime golf season.

I've bought some stuff from True Spec before, and they do a great job building it. I got a set of miuras last year that I got within a week after paying like an extra $400.. but the timeline was just too long when I had other ways of putting it together.

It's definitely brutal to get like a set of irons right now from anywhere... all these companies are so backed up. Think Callaway is the only company that's reasonably quick ordering direct from them at the moment, and that might be like 3-4 weeks still.

Yeah, that's pretty disappointing. We already know the shaft cost should be roughly $325 all in and they want another $20. That in itself isn't totally dreadful but the fact they want $70 in shipping for a driver is silly. There's plenty of places that don't charge for shipping and if it truly cost $70 to ship a driver that would be half of their profit margin. Totally bogus.

All that being said, as you asked years ago in another thread, you have to do the SST Pure. It's an absolute must for a high quality after market shaft.

My initial thought would be to tell them the shipping charge is a joke, but if they nix it, you'll do the SST Pure. That would put you in a more fair ballpark.

Yeah I did pure my irons. Wanted to get your thoughts on this:

MAP on that shaft does appear to be $360 currently, so yeah, $450 is silly. For what it's worth, margin on shafts is crazy high even at MAP, a tremendous money maker for a fitter or seller.

$360 + $20 for tip/install + $10 shipping + ~$10 grip = $400 all in before SST Pure.

If I get bored I may have to drop in a True Spec store and have some fun.

See above for my opinion on SST Pure on graphite shafts.

Obviously I don't agree with his assessment. My thoughts on it...

I liken his flat tire analogy to a stock shaft. As already discussed, stock shafts are thin and crappy. Plenty of bad spots so to speak. While SST would help to some degree with that, there would still be oscillations you don't want.

His testing was done in a fairly obsolete manner for scientific purposes. How is one supposed to tell the difference between 1 or 2 degrees or even less by doing that? And you of course know the difference between 1 and 2 degrees at impact with a ball moving at an initial speed of 150-180mph. 1 degree can easily be the difference between a ball in the fairway and a ball in the water.

All tour pros do it. Of course it doesn't cost them anything, but why would every single tour player do it if they didn't think it helped?

From a personal point of view, I hadn't had a shaft SST Pured until maybe 5 years ago and instantly I could tell a huge difference in the graphite shafts in my woods. I used to feel a strange twist in the shaft on the downswing at times that would result in a ball way off line. I have never felt that on a Pured shaft. Ever.

Now iron shafts are a bit different. Different material, shorter shaft, slower speeds. I'm of the opinion that it's not near as imperative to get them Pured as graphite driver shafts. Of course it's a very good thing, but the results are a bit muted when compared to the driver. While it's subjective, I have not been able to feel the difference between a steel shaft that's been Pured and one that has not.

Most golfers that take the time and money to get properly fitted into after market shafts want to make sure the club does all it can and that means SST Pure.

Rant time.

I joined a country club this year. Nothing fancy. No tennis courts, no pool. Just a solid golf course. One of the allures was being able to play the reciprocals. All reciprocals must be arranged by my course.....

First time I called and asked them (him) to call course X. When I went in to play next day I ask how he made out. He replies "what was I supposed to do again?" Sigh. He did make arrangements during our round. Yay.

Next time I called and asked to set up course Y. When I go to course next day I ask if he had a chance to call. "No." No follow up. No "I'll call today." Nothing. I think I checked the next day and he still hadn't and I told him to just give me a tee time at home course instead.

Past Sunday, I get to course at noon. Ask him to set up course Z for this Sunday. Check after round. He hadn't called. Check yesterday. He called and no answer. Check today. Hasn't called, been busy. Again I say just give a tee time at home course.

I know he's a busy guy but seriously, WTF.

And the kicker is he'll never call me, I have to call him every time.

I know, what a thing to complain about. But I'm paying for this stuff and it's god damn impossible.

Does he not have a boss you can talk to?

yeah, as much as i'm prone to working it out with the person i've been dealing with, it seems like it's time to escalate this particular situation.

I mean yeah, obviously he has a boss. Just doesn't seem worth taking it any further. I plan on staying at this club and have to deal with this guy all the time. If I was to complain there would definitely be friction.

It's just sooooooo annoying.

Took a golf trip to the Colorado mountains last weekend, played gypsum creek, red sky ranch (fazio) 3x and both Keystone courses in three days. Scoring was mixed, as someone whose never even played 36 in one day before the second round each day was grindy. But with my handicap and some good teammate support I was able to win lots of Nassau bets. Great wildlife including an American bald eagle at red sky ranch. Great times!


Keystone river 18


Red Sky Ranch

congrats Jack...looks like a fantastic experience

His boss may appreciate knowing that this employee may be annoying members enough that some might drop their membership in the club. IME clubs hate losing members and try to prevent that from happening.

Am assuming this is the head pro you’re dealing with. Just talk to him about it, ask if you are using the correct procedure. If so, just say you don’t think you should have to follow up multiple times. Find a way that works for both of you.

Golf professionals have to put up with a lot of ignorant crap from members and it gets old quick. This is not one of those times, but they do appreciate the members who are rational and professional when there is an issue.

"They do appreciate the members who are rational and professional when there is an issue." - bo.

Incorrigible *******s tend to make it feel like this is not the case if we apply this statement to all walks of life. But I know the truth. Truth is that people are generally good natured. Sure we have all probably got caught up in argument and we all have an attack mode. However some people take this to the extreme over the slightest issue. Problems basically never get resolved by these people because of their inability to speak and act respectfully during conflict. If you allow *******s to shape your strategies for life, youre very likely to end up miserable. In other words if you go into any conflict with the idea that its a battle instead of a negotiation, youre just preventing yourself from being able to have constructive discourse; you become the reason why there is no resolution. Since I cannot control the opposition's behavior during conflict, it becomes imperative that I focus on my own behavior. This is how good business and relationships thrive.

Ok back to golf with ye!! I havent swung a club in 2 months. But I'm going away this weekend and will try to get out on my nemesis course early Saturday as a single. Hoping to fit in a bucket or two and 9 at the local course beforehand.