Having to read your troll posts.

Uhhh, OK bro. I was being serious. Your post doesn't give much to go on - it's really vague.

Make it more clear and I'll gladly respond. Or just make jokes at my expense.

I think I might add like 8 people to the ignore list today. So many dumb people in this subforum it's unbelievable. Huge waste of time talking to guys who think shooting 72 gives you a 150 IQ.

I think I have spotted the phrasing that is causing the confusion- when I say "lose strokes to par" I am meaning something different from what you mean when you say "lose strokes to par".

What I mean is this: with every club from every situation you have a range of possible results of taking that shot with that club.

Let's talk about a scenario that has been simplified for argument's sake:

I am 100 yards out for my second shot on a par 4. I never 3 putt or 1 putt. I also never fail to put a shot on the green when I am hitting it from within 25 yards, and I only own two clubs- a GW and a PW. Don't ask how I got within 100 yards of the green on a par 4 with only a GW and a PW, or how I never 3 putt with a GW or PW.

Suppose, then, that I hit my Gap wedge on the green ~90% of the time. The other 10% of the time it lands within 25 yards of the green (meaning that I will require exactly 3 more strokes to get it in the hole). So, my stroke expectancy (to par) for my GW in that situation is .90*0+.1*1= +.1 stroke.

For that same scenario, let's say I pull my PW instead. Since I hit my PW longer on average let's say I only stick the green 75% of the time with my PW and the other 25% of the time it lands within 25 yards of the green. My stroke expectancy to par for my PW in that situation is then .75*0+.25*1 = +.25 stroke. Then, obviously, my GW is the best choice for that scenario. This is what I mean by "strokes lost to par".

Surely you can see, then, that in every situation there has to be a single club that "loses" the least number of strokes to par, which means that it is the best club for that particular shot.

I was hoping that you would admit to trolling - I'd have given you some kudos for fooling so many people for so long.

If you are serious about what you are saying, you are beyond hope as a student of golf.

I won't bother interacting with you any further with regard to playing golf if you continue this charade.

I have no idea why you are telling me this. I know this.

And in some situations, I believe the 3i is the club that fits that description. Though in my case, every club loses a little bit to par.

If I'm 250 out and I pull my lob wedge I'm lighting between .5 and 1 full strokes on fire. So that would be a terrible choice.

In some situations, I feel that my 3i (and whatever subsequent clubs are used) may lose .16 strokes to par whereas the next best club (4i) may lose .18 strokes to par. So I pull the 3i.

Why does this confuse you?

Are you even reading my posts? I said quite awhile ago (a couple different times, I think) that if there are situations where you think the 3i is the best club for that shot, then I have no problem with it being in your bag. The point I am trying to make is that it IS a viable choice to play with 13 clubs rather than 14 if the only club you have access to as a 14th club is never going to be the best club for a given shot.

Dude you asked me a question and I ignored it for the time being because it was a bit off-topic. You asked me to respond to it and I asked you to clarify it and you made a joke at my expense.

Now you are attacking me further. Why?

Did you not hear me already admit to pulling my 4i in some instances where it calls for 3i distance? I use discretion.

I literally recently played a round with a 193 yard par 3 slightly elevated that I should have pulled my 3i but had hit a good shot with the 4i moments before so I decided to give the 4i a good rip. I hit it 207 dead straight and was left with a 42 foot slight downhill putt for birdie.

I do not grab my 3i and rip it at all opportunities.

Does it make you happy that you trolled so many people who tried to help the '26-h/c' poster?

Reported you for trolling - apologies if I'm wrong.

So then did you just not read post 6870?

Even if your 14th club is never expected to be your best option - you still carry it. Because of what I said in that post. Clubs break or if it's your driver it's really ****ing long and you can use it for drops.

The driver is probably the only instance I can think of where this would happen (that you hit it so MONUMENTALLY worse than the other 13 clubs (because it is a fundamentally different swing type) - and don't have a club to replace it with) that would make sense to leave it at home - but then... you would still carry it for drops and just in case clubs break.

Theoretically, you are right but in practice you should always stock your bag with 14 clubs.

Are you freaking kidding me? You reported ME for trolling? I'm in here responding to every post.

I asked you to clarify your post and you never did. That's a troll.

Checked in to see if the debate was over, my reaction was.


NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I just put MikkeD on ignore and several posters are a moment away from being put on the same list. There are a few people on this forum that I listen to. Dagolfdoc, NXT, ship-this, lok2thabrain, and some others. I can literally recall specific things those posters have said which has helped my game. Since Ship-this said everyone 5 and up should shoot for the middle of the green all the time, my game got better. Lok helped me with a very specific putting problem I was having and it paid immediate dividends. Golfdoc has helped a lot - specifically with ball below or above feet lies.

I have asked people who are better than me for help and I have used it in various instances and it has helped me. Most people here though are not worth listening to because they either cannot type or they just do not make sense or make logical or mathematical errors. Really basic stuff. They simply let their golf elitism cloud their brain.

I'll go on listening to those whose opinion I value and I think it's best that I ignore those who constantly want to attack me for no reason.

People who think match play is "easier" to win than stroke play, or who think playing with your 13 best clubs is somehow better than playing with your 14 best clubs can chat on skype or whatever and do their own thing. It's a waste of time to talk golf with these people though.

Gonna go ahead and use one of your favorite lines for this one- have you seen many high cappers play? My brother is the definition of a high capper and there are several clubs in his bag including his driver that he tops, chunks, massively slices, or otherwise mi****s to the tune of multiple lost strokes literally >30% or so of the time he attempts to hit them (well within the range of "never the right club for the job" territory).

Lots of new ****ty golfers buy 14 clubs and then call it a day, thus they don't have an extra wedge or hybrid or fairway wood or something laying around to put in the bag when they realize their 3i or Driver is doing more harm than good. If I had to guess, I would say that more >25 handicap players than not could see scoring improvements by taking 1 or 2 of their clubs out of their bag (specifically Driver, low irons, and high lofted wedges like a lob wedge). That is the point- if you really want to hang your hat on the "well you might break a club or something" argument... go right ahead, but it doesn't really hold water.

MikkeD
bwslim69
Everlastrr
have now all been put on Ignore. I see absolutely zero reason to read anything these guys write.

BreakYaNeck
ReidLockhart
Spgranger

are all really close to going on the list.

spg, he sounds awful. His handicap is probably way higher than mine. He sucks with his driver. But he should still carry it for all the reasons I've already listed.

Another thing people are forgetting is that ****ty golfers like to hit their full bag because playing golf is their form of practice. They want to get adequate with each club. Some people don't like beating balls at the range - their practice is the coursework. They aren't there to save .11 strokes by going 6i/P-wedge instead of 3i/A-wedge. They might be there to see if they can hit the 3i.

I'm not saying this is "right". They should get a good swing down at the range but it's just reality for bad players who aren't trying to go pro.

Your friend likely still hits his driver off every tee because he thinks sooner or later he'll figure it out. Whether this is wrong or right... it's what he thinks. His thought process: "If I leave my driver at home - how am I ever going to hit it right?"

This is true. But it doesn't make ARC any less correct. DUCY?

Hint: Wrong in the aggregate doesn't mean wrong in every instance.

Also,

Did I leave you out? My mistake I just rattled off a few that I could recall specific instances. My point was people are making it sound like I DON'T listen to people who are better than me - which is complete bull****. I just don't listen to people who are better than me who are wrong about what they are saying.

Lol, I was jk'ing. Mostly. Just slight ego bruise.

If you want to put me on ignore, feel free. I've said nothing to you that is even half as bad as a dozen things you have said to others in this (and every other) thread. I have honestly tried to see where you're coming from, and I was not one of the people giving you that stupid "lol 3i nobody but a scratch should use a 3i" stuff. I fully acknowledge that everyone is different in their capabilities as a player, but you on the other hand refuse to even remotely acknowledge the points that you are even conceding in a roundabout way (such as that if a club is never the correct club to use that it is useless).

You think you're a pretty smart guy, and you may be, but you don't even give people a chance to tell the vast majority of the time because of all of your "LOL 14>13"-type bull****.

Your Boss,
You're hard to remember because you don't have an avatar and you remind me of "Your Mom", a poster who I think is abrasive. I probably conflate a lot of what you and him say.

And I have said that very thing several times in this thread. Everyone is different in their abilities. I have no trouble believing that there are high cap players who are capable enough with their 3i to justify carrying it. If ARC is one of them, then there is no reason why he shouldn't carry it.

LOOOOOOOOOOOL. spgranger attempts to tame this guy, and in the process is put on ignore.

if you spent as much time on a golf range/lessons as you did writing stupid ****in **** on a golf forum you'd probably be good