Regarding long par 3s, short par 4s, long par 4s and short par 5s.

A negligible number of golf holes will actually have a whole number as the average score among scratch golfers. If a hole is 3.4999 strokes avg for scratch, thats a par 3. Short par 4s may average as little as 3.5 strokes for scratch.

Same goes for par 4s and 5s, or at least that's my superficial understanding of par.

Not sure where this fit, so I'm leaving it here:

https://www.reuters.com/legal/pga-to...rt-2022-10-26/

Volunteering at the ladies event again next week. Working the Monday and Wednesday pro-ams and then Friday and Saturday.

The course is where the next "The Match" is going to be between Tiger and Rory vs Thomas and Spieth.

Quick question in regards to Winter rules (Lift, clean and place)

Does this apply when you are on the green?

At my club some of the fringes of the greens are stupid high in some areas, It's not uncommon for your ball to come up to rest against them making it so awkward to play. So I was wondering with the winter rules could I actually lift it and place it in the fringe?

Nope. Frustrating but just got to deal with it.

And hopefully you only play it up in the fairway, if you hit it in the rough you deserve to have a bad lie.

ah yeah always in the fairway.

Had a playing partner in a roll up comp hit it short on a par 3 like 50 yards short and was in like a rough patch. He picked up his ball and cleaned it I was like wtf are you doing.

but what about the leaf rule?

If I am reading this correctly your ball is resting against the "high" fringe. If that is the case your ball is almost certainly on the green and by rule you are entitled to clean and replace the ball.

Most players (even a lot of pros) don't know that if any part of the ball is touching the green, then by rule the ball is deemed to be on the green.

Yes it's on the green but resting against a high fringe making it tough to get to the back of the ball. I know I can mark as usual on the green, The question was, as it's winter rules and can I lift my ball off the green and then replace in the fringe as long it's within the measurement allowed for lift clean and place.

Managed to get Lexi's pro-am group. Photo incoming....



Even got her to "like" my photo on IG too, lol.

how fun that round must have been!

Nice, that's nice.

AFAIK "winter rules" (or "preferred lies") is simply a local rule, which means the club dictates how the rule is imposed. If the rule uses the term "general area" or the older term "through the green", then you are not entitled to apply winter rules when the ball is on the green. "general area" and the old term "through the green" specifically exclude the putting green on the hole being played.

If instead the rule does not use these terms, for example "[today] a ball may be cleaned and replaced within 6 inches no hearer the hole", then you may be able to apply winter rules when the ball is on the green, thus allowing you to move the ball as you noted.

She was great to be around. Even helped the 40ish handicap lady in her Pro-Am group with her swing.

i haven't seen her swing in a while...i'm guessing she still has that strong legged push with her long wood swings?

Not as noticeable in a practice round. Def more pronounced in competition.

interesting

Wednesday Pro-Am. Janie Jackson on the front and Aza on the back.

Looks like they canceled Thursday's play, hope Tampa doesn't get roughed up too much by Nicole.

Tomorrow is the last nice day here, of course I'm planning to play on Friday. That'll be the closing day for a bunch of local courses since the weekend is supposed to be wintry and next week no better. Boo.

Yep, reduced to 54 holes. Doesn't look too bad here. Actually looks like worse weather here than Ian was.

Re: Winter rules. Our new pro decided that it should be six inches everywhere, where it used to be a club length on the fairway/six inches in the rough/anywhere else. It's annoying, because this time of year after punching and sanding, there are a LOT of places on the fairway where you can't find a lie within 6 inches.

Your new pro is obviously not a nit, why else would a PGA pro think it’s ok to jack the ball in the rough?

Porter - how's the drainage at AGCC? guessing the fairways have a nice coastal sand base and still play with a bit of a thump? do they keep the dunes mowed all winter?

I played at a pretty-good to really-good municipal course in western Colorado, Battlement Mesa. The town is smaller than could probably support such a good course but the gas/oil boom/bust cycle worked in our collective favor back in the 80s/90s as one of the energy companies paid to have it built when it looked like a more permanent energy town, but after one of the busts they rolled out of town and sold the course to the town for pennies.

All that said - it's a good course that can use some tweaks and upgrades (as most muni's do) and I'm very excited that one of those upgrades is happening.

The 17th hole is a downhill, short-ish par-5 (550/ 510/ 470/ 440), but it plays into the prevailing wind (see my wind direction arrows in purple on the second image). The course is overall pretty wide, which is a requirement as the wind almost always blows and is often 1-3 clubs depending on the day and time of day. The fairway bunker doesn't really come into play except for on the windiest days but it's a good frame for the tee shot - aim between the tree on the left and the bunker and let it fly. The second shot is super fun and enticing; any decent tee ball will allow for a chance to get on/close in 2, but there is good risk with OB left, bunker long and desert (and OB if you're way off) right. The large light-green non-circle I drew is a 8-10 foot deep grass bunker that a lot of people end up in and is a challenging up and down. The small bunker 45-ish yards short-left of the green is great as in inhibits going left to avoid the grass bunker but also has a nice slope after it that can help funnel seconds shots toward the green a bit.

The green is good sized. The front left and middle-middle pins are the easier/birdie pins and the back left section is a raised tier that is hard to get to or putt up to. The right side of the green is also slightly higher and isn't very deep (about 16y deep with a false front and back) so even with a wedge for a 3rd or chipping from the grass bunker it's not easy; the third image is a decent shot of the green the drop off short and right, the back left shelf and the bunker/fall off just over the back.

Hole overview:






Back to the change. The course owns the area outlined in yellow and it has always been wild vegetation; just clumpy dirt and a few sage bushes and small bits of grass; you'll generally find the ball and should be able to play it, but it's between a half and full shot recovery depending on how far you can advance it back into play. The way the wind blows a lot of tee balls end up over there; once you're right of the rough line it's steep down to the street so you can get exponentially more offline with wind and slope. The whole area was graded and seeded this fall to grow light-rough and wispy-grass. My discussion with the super leads me to believe they will expand the fairway to the pink line increasing the width in the primary landing zone from about 33y to 45y.

I'm a big fan of the change not just because I'm awful at driving but because I think it adds a lot of playability while still leaving the challenge. The best line off the tee will still be down the left half of the fairway to not get blocked out by the trees on the right and to have less of the grass bunker to carry. Blasting it way right won't improve the angle and it's a harder layup as you have to get over the small row of trees just right of the fairway and just before the layup zone. Very excited to see how it turns out next summer.