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Old 10-17-2020, 01:57 PM   #51
JackInDaCrak
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Re: Help me Fix this full swing once and for all

I finally understand how to hit a draw!

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Old 10-17-2020, 07:39 PM   #52
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Re: Help me Fix this full swing once and for all

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Old 05-01-2021, 10:01 AM   #53
tilter29
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Re: Help me Fix this full swing once and for all

I am a little late to this thread but wanted help a little if you or anyone else wandered here. I just looked at your first swing and this last one and looks much better. The first thing I would recommend changing is your backswing is way too far inside. This is completely normal and what 99% of all golfers do. I'm guessing that you are right handed? This is because when you are right handed, the right side of your body is the dominant side. What this leads to is "pulling" the club on the backswing which leads to it going too far inside. Then to compensate for being too far inside the brain creates this over the top motion on the way down. That's why 99% of all golfers fight a slice.

Set up with your club as a lefty, now take the club back and your right side will dominate and instead of pulling, now you "push" the club back which is ideal and this push is what gets the club more on plane. If I was commissioner of golf or something the first thing I would do is switch all the stickers in the golf shops for right handed clubs and left handed clubs. This would make golf so much easier for everyone starting out. The same is true for the downswing because on the downswing you want your dominant side to really take over to transfer your weight and this is what creates power.

So since you have been playing for a while, you obviously don't need to start swinging left handed if you don't want to. Try a couple practice swings left handed just to get the feeling of the club being "pushed" back and then take your normal set up and recreate that feeling of "pushing" the club back.

Set up over the ball and think of your left foot being West, your right foot being East, behind you is South, and in front of you is North. Now "feel" like you are taking the clubhead and going north, not east while turning back with your shoulders. This will feel strange and you'll think that it is too exaggerated but it won't be. This will really help you get your arms out in front of you which will help you gain distance, get the club on plane, and get you hitting it more consistently. The golf swing is connected and the key is fixing one thing to fix 5 things instead of fixing 5 things to fix one. This will really get you on a good start and will take care of a lot of other issues you have. It's not a cure all but it's a start. Most instructors have this problem and I saw some of your posts and don't agree with much of the instruction you got. I give a lot of golf lessons, went to school for it, and have been able to work for the top two golf instructors in the world and got to learn a lot from them. This is what I would recommend you start on and just let me know if you have any questions.

GL GL

Last edited by tilter29; 05-01-2021 at 10:06 AM.
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Old 06-08-2021, 04:22 PM   #54
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Re: Help me Fix this full swing once and for all

Any thoughts are welcome/appreciated

https://i.imgur.com/AzESNqm.mp4
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Old 06-09-2021, 07:02 AM   #55
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Re: Help me Fix this full swing once and for all

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Any thoughts are welcome/appreciated

https://i.imgur.com/AzESNqm.mp4
Ok I watched several times and stopped it a few during the swing. I don't see a lot to change there at all. If I was REALLY nitpicky you take the club back a touch to the outside and you slightly pull across it at the start of your downswing. General direction is a baby fade, possible a little worse in the wind???

Let's see what Bo has to say but I don't would keep it as is.
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Old 06-09-2021, 01:09 PM   #56
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Re: Help me Fix this full swing once and for all

Yeah I used to be an inside then over the top but have worked a lot to take the club more outside and it may be being overdone at this time.

My driver misses are pull cuts and big ol’ push slices but that’s mostly due to the fact that I’m a mental headcase with that club in my hand. Rarely miss it left anymore

Just working to get something that mostly goes straight with a tiny fade. Want to be able to aim left center and swing on just about any hole.
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Old 06-09-2021, 04:28 PM   #57
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Re: Help me Fix this full swing once and for all

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Yeah I used to be an inside then over the top but have worked a lot to take the club more outside and it may be being overdone at this time.

My driver misses are pull cuts and big ol’ push slices but that’s mostly due to the fact that I’m a mental headcase with that club in my hand. Rarely miss it left anymore

Just working to get something that mostly goes straight with a tiny fade. Want to be able to aim left center and swing on just about any hole.
Hard to tell with this video but you might have a wee bit of EE which makes some sense given the pull cut/slice misses. Drawa line at the back of your butt at set up and then compare that to where the back of your butt is at impact. Pretty sure it ends up a good bit closer to the ball.

Club can get behind you a bit more too coming down...that actually may help alleviate the EE
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Old 06-09-2021, 06:28 PM   #58
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Re: Help me Fix this full swing once and for all

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Any thoughts are welcome/appreciated

https://i.imgur.com/AzESNqm.mp4
Pretty good move, I have two thoughts/suggestions.

1, Look where the clubface is at the top of the swing, completely vertical. Many years ago this would be considered ideal, but no more. There is such a thing called "modern square" where the clubface is more at a 45 degree angle. It's a much more powerful position, especially for those who don't swing 120mph. I can't see the grip, but I'd bet that your left thumb is directly on top of the shaft, in other words a weak grip. It's much more difficult to square the club with a weak grip which leads to a weak fade/slice.

2, overall it appears in this slow mo video at least that you are trying really hard to put the club in certain positions, in other words a very technical swing. There does not appear to be very much athletic movement for such a solid move. Look at the tour players, they swing very freely through the ball with no worry about where it is going. I don't see that in your swing. To me, you seem to be sacrificing athletic ability for technical excellence.

If I'm correct about your grip, move your left hand to the right 45 degrees so that your thumb is now down the shaft at approximately 1:30 on a clock face. This will make the club feel lighter and easier to swing so that the clubface can square up easier.

Finally, let your athletic ability come out in your swing. The club should be moving the fastest at impact, not before or after. At present, the club doesn't seem to be moving very fast at any point in the downswing. Be aggressive through the ball without fear of where it might be going. Practice hitting the ball as hard as you can to let your athletic ability come out. Don't worry so much about proper positions throughout the swing, your positions are already plenty good.

Good luck, let me know if you have any questions regarding the above.
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Old 06-09-2021, 07:19 PM   #59
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Re: Help me Fix this full swing once and for all

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Originally Posted by bwslim69 View Post
Hard to tell with this video but you might have a wee bit of EE which makes some sense given the pull cut/slice misses. Drawa line at the back of your butt at set up and then compare that to where the back of your butt is at impact. Pretty sure it ends up a good bit closer to the ball.

Club can get behind you a bit more too coming down...that actually may help alleviate the EE
EE is early extension? I've got an 8i video from my last lesson my instructor took from behind; I'll post it later to see if that looks like an issue. Although I'm sure my 8i and driver swings have some difference in that regard

Quote:
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Pretty good move, I have two thoughts/suggestions.

1, Look where the clubface is at the top of the swing, completely vertical. Many years ago this would be considered ideal, but no more. There is such a thing called "modern square" where the clubface is more at a 45 degree angle. It's a much more powerful position, especially for those who don't swing 120mph. I can't see the grip, but I'd bet that your left thumb is directly on top of the shaft, in other words a weak grip. It's much more difficult to square the club with a weak grip which leads to a weak fade/slice.

2, overall it appears in this slow mo video at least that you are trying really hard to put the club in certain positions, in other words a very technical swing. There does not appear to be very much athletic movement for such a solid move. Look at the tour players, they swing very freely through the ball with no worry about where it is going. I don't see that in your swing. To me, you seem to be sacrificing athletic ability for technical excellence.

If I'm correct about your grip, move your left hand to the right 45 degrees so that your thumb is now down the shaft at approximately 1:30 on a clock face. This will make the club feel lighter and easier to swing so that the clubface can square up easier.

Finally, let your athletic ability come out in your swing. The club should be moving the fastest at impact, not before or after. At present, the club doesn't seem to be moving very fast at any point in the downswing. Be aggressive through the ball without fear of where it might be going. Practice hitting the ball as hard as you can to let your athletic ability come out. Don't worry so much about proper positions throughout the swing, your positions are already plenty good.

Good luck, let me know if you have any questions regarding the above.
Interesting about the grip - that is correct. I was taught an interlocking grip and my left thumb is on top of the shaft. When you strengthen the grip where does the thumb go? Just under the right palm? Feels very foreign for me, of course

Pictures I just got at home gripping the driver (do these help you see what you're looking for?):
Spoiler:


Regarding athleticism and fear - spot on, especially with driver. I am terrified even on the range when I swing driver and other long clubs because my misses are so big. I will try the stronger grip and swinging more freely
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Old 06-09-2021, 07:48 PM   #60
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Old 06-09-2021, 11:56 PM   #61
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Re: Help me Fix this full swing once and for all

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Originally Posted by KingJames View Post
Interesting about the grip - that is correct. I was taught an interlocking grip and my left thumb is on top of the shaft. When you strengthen the grip where does the thumb go? Just under the right palm? Feels very foreign for me, of course

Pictures I just got at home gripping the driver (do these help you see what you're looking for?):

Regarding athleticism and fear - spot on, especially with driver. I am terrified even on the range when I swing driver and other long clubs because my misses are so big. I will try the stronger grip and swinging more freely
Perfect on the pics.

So the grip works as a unit, both hands working in tandem. Your hands look pretty well "married" together, meaning they work as a unit currently, just a very weak unit. So we're going to strengthen that which means we are simply going to rotate the entire unit, not just one hand.

So from your angle over the ball, imagine the grip is a clock face so your left thumb will be at approximately 12 o'clock. I want you to rotate your grip as a unit clockwise until the left thumb is somewhere between 1 and 2 o'clock. (experiment a bit with slightly different positions to see what feels comfortable and also works the best while hitting balls) The right hand still covers the left in the same way, both are just rotated clockwise equally.

This grip will allow you to square up the clubface easier and hopefully reduce and/or eliminate your weak left to right shot.

To show yourself how much stronger this grip is, do the following. Grip the club with your left hand only, thumb in the old position, and hold the club in front of you off the ground. Now hinge your wrist vertically several times and feel how much strength this takes to do so. Now do the same thing with the stronger grip. When you hinge your wrist vertically it should feel much easier to do, as if the club is magically lighter.

If so, you can then extrapolate how much easier it should be square the face of the club and also make a much more aggressive move through impact. It's always fun to watch students make this move with the left hand and see the look on their face when the club is magically much lighter.

Let us know how it goes. Good luck.
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Old 06-10-2021, 03:03 AM   #62
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Re: Help me Fix this full swing once and for all

What BO talked about with the athleticism really rings true for me when seeing your swing.

The key component of this is starting the transition with the lower body as the backswing is still finishing. I was just getting a lesson yesterday and we were working on getting the club in the right position on the backswing, and one of the drills involved me putting a pool noodle under my right armpit such that at address the noodle is parallel to the ground. As you swing back, as that left arm hits the pool noodle, or the left arm gets to parallel, the club still has about 40-60 degrees of rotation to get to the end of the backswing. But the point of contact with the arm to the noodle is the trigger to start transitioning my weight forward.

I agree with the overall assessment that it seems like you're getting the club to a lot of the right spots, but it seems like you're kind of thinking your way through each position rather than swinging free, and that's why the swing looks a little lackadaisical rather than athletic and smooth.

I'd try and work on the transition piece where you get to a point where you transition before the club completes the backswing, then on the downswing your weight is where it needs to be and you just turn the club through.
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Old 06-10-2021, 10:11 AM   #63
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Re: Help me Fix this full swing once and for all

Looking at a few of your swings and I don't know if you have adjusted since then, but from my untrained uneducated eye I would say your bringing the club inside to quickly. If I were you I'd work on your takeaway. Think of more taking the club away more in a straight line for the 1st few inches, Should help not getting the club stuck behind you and make a better turn.

Picture below is the top of your back swing.

Again I'm untrained and uneducated

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...63/unknown.png

EDIT: this is for JackInDaCrak
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Old 06-10-2021, 10:27 AM   #64
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Re: Help me Fix this full swing once and for all

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Originally Posted by KingJames View Post
EE is early extension? I've got an 8i video from my last lesson my instructor took from behind; I'll post it later to see if that looks like an issue. Although I'm sure my 8i and driver swings have some difference in that regard
Yes longer clubs often expose early extension just by the nature of the swing.
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Old 06-10-2021, 10:29 PM   #65
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Re: Help me Fix this full swing once and for all

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Originally Posted by UnitedAs1 View Post
Looking at a few of your swings and I don't know if you have adjusted since then, but from my untrained uneducated eye I would say your bringing the club inside to quickly. If I were you I'd work on your takeaway. Think of more taking the club away more in a straight line for the 1st few inches, Should help not getting the club stuck behind you and make a better turn.

Picture below is the top of your back swing.

Again I'm untrained and uneducated

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...63/unknown.png

EDIT: this is for JackInDaCrak
Good chatter! Your feedback is very topical. Since I last posted I’ve built my swing into a smooth powerful draw machine much of the time.


Current swing thoughts:

1: take away with back of lead wrist perpendicular to target line and keep it on swing plane

B: Very slow take away

3: deliver club with club head moving to the right


So fun, will post video soon!

Last edited by JackInDaCrak; 06-10-2021 at 10:38 PM.
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Old 06-10-2021, 10:34 PM   #66
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Re: Help me Fix this full swing once and for all

Kingjames

What I see in your swing is busy hips. It looks like you slide your pelvis to the front at transition. I could be confusing this with the early extension the better golfers identified.

I don’t really think about this in my swing but if I force myself to think about my hips in the swing, first I bend my left knee slightly (this is super optional by my understanding) and turn my hips to the back and then I bend my right knee to the front as I straighten my left knee and turn my hips to my the front. The club comes through a moment after that. My hips don’t otherwise move side to side or front to back, much.

If I think about this too consciously I get out of sequence, but it’s a good drill.
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Old 06-10-2021, 11:06 PM   #67
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Re: Help me Fix this full swing once and for all




My son won his first junior PGA match ever this week, too.
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Old 06-10-2021, 11:27 PM   #68
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Re: Help me Fix this full swing once and for all

That 8-iron spin rate is crazy low. Whatís the make and model?
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Old 06-10-2021, 11:41 PM   #69
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Re: Help me Fix this full swing once and for all

Taylormade Sim Max irons (2020)
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Old 06-11-2021, 06:38 AM   #70
tilter29
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Re: Help me Fix this full swing once and for all

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingJames View Post
Any thoughts are welcome/appreciated

https://i.imgur.com/AzESNqm.mp4[/url]
My 2 cents: Change these things in order, one shouldn't be done without the others.

1. Grip is too weak, left thumb and forefinger V should point between your right ear and right shoulder. The club has to be in the fingers and yours is in the palm. NTNBO gave some good info on this. I always like to keep a club around the house when making a grip change. While you are watching TV then you can keep doing it until it feels more and more comfortable. It'll feel really strange at first but this is normal. Like the famous saying "if you made a grip change and it feels good, then you haven't made a grip change."

2. Your clubface is open at the top which = death and this is from the weak grip and once you get the grip right, this will square up.

3. Your athletic motion is not something that you can think "swing athletically" but its a result of proper technique. On the downswing, you are out of sync and the clubhead is the first to move when it should be the last.
Your left heel comes off the ground a little on your backswing which is fine but the weight to your left side HAS to be the first move down. Power comes from the ground up. Here is an image that will help you better understand what the proper sequence should be.

https://imgur.com/TXObafi

4. Your follow through is a little chicken winged and it's from not releasing the club correctly. You are coming over the top like 99% of all golfers and why 99% of golfers hit a slice. The downswing has to start from the ground up with your lower body being the first move on the downswing. This creates power as well as gets the club on the proper plane and in the "slot".

To correct this, make your normal swing but rotate your left forearm to the left after impact. If you do this correctly, your first couple of shots will be a hook. Don't think you did it wrong because you hooked it. The hook is because you are actually releasing the club properly but coming over the top. Once you come down the right plane which will "feel" to you like you are swing out to the right. Once you get this then you are golden. You will gain about 15 to 20 yards with the driver and your days of slicing will be only a memory. When I teach this to my students, I can get them from a slice to a nice draw in only a few swings. This is more difficult because I can't watch you in real time obviously but you get the idea and I'm sure you'll get it without a problem.

https://imgur.com/Z9mXu7n


Your swing is good and you aren't far off. I'm guessing that you shoot about mid 80s and by making these little tweeks then you won't be far off from shooting in the 70s. Very solid swing and you have a good base and don't have much to correct. Your swing plane is excellent on the backswing and everything else looks pretty good. Couple other things will need to be addressed at a later time but right now just focus on the #1 grip, #2 proper sequence, #3 releasing the club with rotating your left arm after impact.

Let me know if you have any questions and GL GL
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Old 06-11-2021, 10:46 AM   #71
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Re: Help me Fix this full swing once and for all

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That 2nd Driver swing...

Looks like you need to work on consistency a bit. 8 iron stats all over the place

What is your index again?

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My son won his first junior PGA match ever this week, too.
GG Jack Jr!
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Old 06-11-2021, 10:49 AM   #72
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Re: Help me Fix this full swing once and for all

Playing to a 22.4 right now but feel like I’m making a lot of progress. Those 8i swings are consistent, for me...
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Old 06-11-2021, 11:09 AM   #73
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Re: Help me Fix this full swing once and for all

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Playing to a 22.4 right now but feel like Iím making a lot of progress. Those 8i swings are consistent, for me...
Oh wow I would have guessed a lower handicap tbh. Yeah those numbers aren't too bad for a 22
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Old 06-11-2021, 03:40 PM   #74
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Re: Help me Fix this full swing once and for all

Im a head case
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Old 06-11-2021, 07:36 PM   #75
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Re: Help me Fix this full swing once and for all

aren't we all in one way or another?
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