I can appreciate that. I find it slightly insulting when I hear amateurs giving golf tips, without knowing anything about teaching, and when they think being a PGA Instructor is just knowing how to say "Your coming over the top"

Yes, but what is your point? Winning the lottery requires no skill - the 10K hours was a baseline to develop skill.

Yes he does now, after hundreds of people offered to donate to the project. He began without soliciting donations and funded the project on his own dime. I have some friends who, after meeting Dan, asked if they could contribute - I've never heard him ask anyone for money or free anything. Many people are drawn to his project and want to help in various ways, especially after they've met him & hear his story. Many others think his project is an insult and want to see him fail. Fair enough. As I've said earlier in the thread, the PGA was a goal which he would have loved to achieve, but it was only a goal. If he was going to dedicate years of his life to a project, why not set the bar as high as possible?

Golfdoc, why doesn't he move south and work with someone new?

That's a good question! He's from Atlanta, and he spends a few weeks a year in the Dirty South, but Dan is a very bohemian/free-spirit type guy. He moved out west during a trip & just basically stayed because he enjoyed the people, environment, attitude of the Northwest. Honestly, I think he enjoys the vibe too much to move. He has been working with a new instructor for a few weeks, but I don't know much about him. Hopefully, he's found an instructor that will match his passion and guide his game in the best direction.

If it was me, I would move somewhere that I could play cheap, and be around other golf rats trying to improve. I think that would be hugely beneficial to him as well as making it way more fun.

Completely agree - practice, play, & learn from a bunch of other good players would be a benefit - especially at his current level.

He got a lot more attention to his project because of this PGA Tour aspirations. If you are going to put that out there without knowing one damn thing about the sport or what it takes to get to that level, then be prepared to get questioned.

I know one guy who has shot four 62's this summer on his home course. What is his job? Caddy on the tour. Couldn't even sniff it.

He did a great job marketing. Will give him props for that. And your comment about why not shoot high? Sure. Why not say I want to break Jack Nicklaus' record for Majors? Why stop at just making the tour.

If he said, I am going to spend 10,000 hours and try to become a scratch golfer, it might not have drawn as much attention, but I would have found that a lot more entertaining and interesting. He just comes off as a laughingstock with all his media interviews without even knowing what the hell he is even doing.

golfnutt, why are you so angry about this dude's endeavor?

I can't see why you would care that he's getting "undue" attention from this.

He's wasting 5 years of his life to attempt something that was almost entirely not possible before he even started. I'm not jealous of the guy - I kinda feel sorry for him.

It's extremely dumb to think spending 10K hours doing something will make you world-class. But it's his life and he can do what he wants.

To be great at anything takes some mix of talent and hard work. If your talent level isn't high enough, you could work 24/7 at something and still not reach the top.

Not angry per se, just find it borderline insulting to have no clue what it takes to become a PGA pro before he even hit one shot. Easy to write. Much higher chance of winning Powerball Lottery. At least play game before making outlandish statements.

I dont really like to critisice this guy. What he is doing is pretty cool. However, not a huge fan that his handicap has become a vanity cap. No way he is a 5 handicap

He doesn't even post it anymore.

Sounds like you're a little angry. Who is he insulting? Personally, I find the use of "pro" as opposed to "professional" insulting, simply because I have the letters PGA after my name. Just sayin'...

I would like to own a jet. Although I know nothing about them, I hope that's not insulting to all the jet owners in the world. However, I could spend 10K trying to learn a new profession which might allow me to earn enough to purchase a jet, I am happy with my profession, if I wasn't, maybe I would try something different that seems interesting. I'm sure people would tell me I couldn't do it, but if I found one who said "you can do it" you can bet I would latch on to them and try my best to do it. Having a goal and the passion/time/hard work to try to achieve it is not an insult. Insulting would be the player who says "I could do that" but doesn't try. I also don't see posting your results to the world on a regular basis as an insult - that is hard to do especially when the going gets tough. However, those are just my opinions, and everyone else is entitled to their own.

I am not a superstar golfer but was able to play some PAC-10 golf. My best was .4 handicap which is decent but LIGHT years away from a PGA Tour pro. A 20-handicap golfer was closer to me than I was to a PGA pro.

Plus, I know a ton of 2,000 hour a year golfers that suck. There is very little correlation with 10,000 hours and proficiency at golf. I have seen multiple occasions where the more someone plays, the worse they get.

On another note, why do you think he stopped posting his handicap index?

I agree completely that just putting the time in doesn't work. I see people everyday who beat ball after ball & don't improve. Dan certainly took a different approach and attempted to do it properly with instructors for golf, fitness, mental, and nutrition. Unfortunately, he got a little sideways with some instruction that might not have been exactly right for him, but didn't just beat balls.

I don't know why he doesn't post his index, but I will ask him when I talk to him next time. I know he's been frustrated, but seems to have found some positives and seems to be on a good track now.

So it looks like Tiger Woods quit his job to play golf amirite?

Variation of golf bum. His different approach was marketing himself. Give him props.

You know the reason he doesn't post his cap. He shouldn't care if it is going up. It is about the journey. Golf has ups and downs. Anyone who plays for any decent length of time knows this.

Also, it seems from his tone this has turned into a chore. I am not even sure if he even loves the game.

That's what I found strange about it. How does he even know if he loves the game if he hasn't spent a significant time with it?

Exactly. The ones who have gotten good relatively quickly LOVE it. Passionate. Becomes part of their DNA.

I think the hour count down has probably made it seem like more of a chore. Like clocking in at a job. Plus, time spent and getting better has a weak correlation. This isn't like law school and studying for the bar where more studying will usually help. I have witnessed multiple people get worse the more they play and practice. Every person is different. Not sure what the ideal hours for Dan to reach his potential, but I know 10,000 hours is absolutely meaningless. Just an interesting round number.

I'm pretty sure he'd played the game at least a few handfuls of times in his life. It's not like he had never been on a golf course and just thought "I bet I'd like this game enough to devote 5 full-time years to". He'd played golf before. Once you've played a few times I think it's easy to know if you like or dislike the game. And the small bit of like can obviously turn into love pretty quickly if you can play quick rounds and log good scores and go for par 5s in 2 and hit long par 3s in regulation and stuff.

Then why didn't he get hooked on golf then, when he had already played enough to love the game?

My guess is he read Outliers and was inspired by what was in there, and said 'ok, I'll try that with golf'. The problem is, there's a difference between liking golf, and loving it. My dad is a golf nut. It's all he talks about or thinks about. He can't sleep the night before a big round. He'd play 54 holes a day if he could. I'm a decent golfer, but I can't say I love the game. I know people who played college golf, work for Titleist, and even they would say they don't LOVE golf. There's a difference. If you're going to devote your life to it, you have to love it.

Probably because he had no earthly idea what he was doing back then? Lack of money back then? Lack of time or resources? Doesn't mean you aren't wired to love golf someday.

I mean I'd played probably fewer than 15 rounds in my life up until 2.5 years ago. Was absolutely awful and never kept score but I always kinda enjoyed golf. Then a couple years ago, out of nowhere I just started watching every tourney on TV and going to the range and starting to play and I really love playing now (though I still suck).

You never know when the golf bug will bite you.

To put it another way, I think he'd played enough rounds in his life to know that it was certainly possible that, if he got some lessons and found out what he was doing, he could easily grow to love the game during the 10k hours worked.

Or, not. Maybe he doesn't love it and even back then when he jumped in he thought it didn't matter whether or not he loved it. Who knows. Not sure why people get so mad about his intentions, though. Besides, millions upon millions of people do something they don't love every day. Not really unheard of.

I certainly like what he's doing, and I support the idea. I hope he reaches some sort of elite level. (I would consider elite somewhere better than +1. Way better than most, but not good enough to ever mean anything.)

I have a friend who was a violinist in a symphony orchestra, went to Julliard, etc. He was talking with a young guy who was really impressed with his resume, the young guy said 'wow, you must have so much talent!' The violinist looked at him puzzled.. Rick spent hours slaving away at his violin, with his parents support. He left regular university and dedicated himself to his passion. Being an elite violinist is certainly different from playing on the PGA. But, this is the only story I can relate to what Dan's doing. I told Rick about the 10k hours principle, and asked if that was how much time he spent, he said 'Sounds about right.'

Yes - the Dan Plan was based on research by "Outliers" and "the Talent Code" - both referenced 10K hours. Dan knew there were certain things he could not do physically (he couldn't run 8 hours/day 6 days/week without causing serious damage to his body), and he wanted to choose something that was measurable - he could have decided "I want to be good at photography or drums," but there was no measurable way to determine improvement. He did look at various other ideas, but golf made sense to him, so that's what was chosen.

Whether he likes/loves/hates golf at this point, I know he loves the challenge of the project - he's interested in testing the 10K hours - it just happens to be golf that he's doing in the project. He knows there are more naysayers than supporters, and he expects that. However, while he could easily walk away and quit at any point, he is going to achieve the 10K hours - that is the project in itself. The goal was complete the 10K hours with an ultimate goal of PGA Tour - however lofty that is. I think more people focus on the PGA tour aspect than the project itself, which I think is a misunderstanding on their part - if I was going to devote 5 years of my life to sales (for example), my goal would not be "I hope after 10K hours, I'm average." My goal would be to become the top sales producer - maybe I get there, maybe I fall short, but I would have a very high goal at the end of the 10K hours. Through my conversations with Dan, I can tell you it's about completing the 10K hours and seeing where that takes him.

Blah, blah, blah...about the journey.

10,000 hours in a sport is meaningless!!!!! Also, how does he calculate hours? A 5 hour golf round where you hit 40-50 full-shots is completely different than 5 hours at the range.

We know where this was going. 99% he was going to end up scratch-9 handicap. .5% 10 handicap and .5% better than scratch. ZERO.ZERO.ZERO change of making the PGA Tour.

I may be over interpreting his blog, but it now seems like it has become a job. And unless golf is your career, it shouldn't be that way.

And even my nickname here, I don't love golf that much. Just like playing 72 holes in one day wouldn't be fun.

This is clearly wrong.

Now stop being a jelly hatur.

Great insight. Thanks for that.

BTW, if you're playing a 5-hour round & I'm in the group with you, it would be work & not fun.