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Originally Posted by ship---this
Again, in your first paragraph you say “I think” and that is your argument. Your assumption. So to answer your assumption as to whether a PGA Tour putter is 4-6 times better than a bogey golfer, yes I do.
How are they 4-6 times better? Can you quantify it somehow!
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Next, the notion that a straight putt breaks against you if you push or pull. Let’s take a real world look at this question. Can you find me a 8 foot circle that every single putt is dead straight? That answer is no. Greens are built with undulation and this thing called slope to assist with drainage. So, and I’ll preface this with virtually all, over 95% of straight 8 foot putts will either be slightly uphill or downhill. To give you an extreme example to simplify this, if you miss an 8 foot straight putt that is .2% grade uphill (fyi .2% is typically the least amount of slope that will supply drainage) by an extreme example of 1 foot right that putt as it rolls will break to the right. Now reduce that down to you only push it to the right lip, that putt will still be breaking ever so slightly AWAY from the hole. Thus, yes a straight putt in the real world when pushed or pulled absolutely will move against you. Now factor in a mi**** and it is amplified. However, if you have a right lip putt that you fan and hit to soft it will have a chance of breaking more than anticipated and still going in. Same thing if you pull a putt but hit it too hard, it can hold the line and catch the hole. So both the straight putt and the right lip putt have the clear ability to go in if hit correctly. But the breaking putt does have the added advantage of a couple of backdoor outs to use a poker analogy for you. I will point out what you are probably fuming to use as a rebuttal that the breaking putt hit too softly or too hard can miss even when hit on the proper line, and I agree with that. However, the tolerance of the other positive factors 100% outweigh those mitigating factors.
Holy ****. Of course if there is any slope at all it will affect your margin of error. You are a genius.
Let me now explain to you how this uphill scenario you have created still maintains the same amount of combinations of line + speed as a perfectly flat putt.
You're hilarious .2% grade.... Ok it now pushes out some putts that would have fallen in on the edges. But it also works in our favor on some putts! The putts that now burn the edges are replaced by putts that previously would have lipped out at various different places. You see the uphill grade slowed down some of our putts and now they don't lip out.
The putts we lost to the edges were replaced by putts that now go in but would have previously lipped out if not for the uphill.
Get it? We still maintain the exact same amount of combinations of line + speed.
BUT HERE IS THE REAL MORTAL COMBAT FINISHING MOVE TO THIS ARGUMENT
With the above, you are basically conceding that a perfectly flat putt(no uphill, no side slope) is easier than a non flat putt! You see you are implying that your .2% grade would turn more of my makes into misses than my misses into makes. Sadly for your argument that is not the case and would appear to be a fatal blow.
Of course, it's likely not a fatal blow bc you seem completely incapable of grasping this concept. I have hope tho.
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As for how good you are, a +3 is great! Congrats. I do find it odd that as a +3 you don’t think that after 4 putts I would know exactly what I expect a putt to do.
For the record, do I think a scratch golfer sucks? Yes as BO noted, but I play with them every time I play and enjoy the company.
Cool
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Did you read the description of the putt I was hitting? Does it make sense to you now how that particular putt had multiple lines that all had speeds that could make the putt go in? So, again I’ll use a poker analogy for you, I had one perfect line and speed combination that will make the putt go in just like the straight putt does. But I have the fortune of a couple backdoor outs because my putt actually has MORE THAN ONE line and speed that can go in. I could walk up and read my putt 1 foot outside right and since I am an aggressive putter I made a good read. However, my buddy is more of a lag putter and his correct line is about 3 feet outside the hole and dying in. There are literally a ton of combinations of line and speed from 1-3 feet outside left that make my putt go in. Sure I am trying for my ideal of 1 foot outside left, but if I happen to hit any of the others on accident I still get rewarded. On the other hand, if the straight putt isn’t hit perfectly there is no reason to not watch after about 10 feet into the roll as you already know it has no chance. I bet I was able to watch half of my putts for a decent amount of time with hopes they might work out. That was way above my expectations and also why I revised what I thought my odds as a +6 actually are in this experiment.
gibberish
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If you can’t see that logic then you simply aren’t listening and thinking and instead are just limited in your thought process.
A-Rod please show me where I avoided questions? I am pretty sure I addressed all concerns. Please read the parts about green design you may have never realized occur. 8 footers will not be straight and flat.
no, you are the one not thinking
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After that please read the portion again as to why having multiple combinations on a putt this long make it EXPONENTIALLY more makeable. If you don’t understand it, please read it again until it makes sense to you as it is correct. Sometimes things are counterintuitive and those are the times people with good logic and reasoning abilities can see what others can’t even grasp.
And please understand how the ball doesn't give 2 ****s how much break it had before arriving at the hole. Based on it's angle of approach it has a set combination of line+speed combos it can have to find the bottom. They are the same for every putt.
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Golf. Learn it. Sometimes bad golfers should actually stfu and think through the reasoning a more experienced player is giving you and apply it to your game. I truly do think NXT's posts are great in the forum and certainly agree he is most likely smarter than me, but in this instance he simply does not see the light.
Physics. Geometry. Logic. Learn all of them and maybe you will understand how they appear in the golf world.