What was the ruling/decision ?

Last Monday, played Ballyneal (http://www.ballyneal.com/). Picked a friend up at the Omaha airport on my way through the day before and we stayed in scenic North Platte, Nebraska before heading down the next morning.

Played 36 holes (all-day rate was a flat $275) with a single caddy, who lugged both of our bags all day.

Thus far I had played some pretty good golf courses, and I hope to play them all again someday. That said, Ballyneal was on a level all its own. In some ways it was similar to Erin Hills - remote location, no out of bounds, native grass lining the fairways in which you could often find your ball - although it was a bit thicker and more of a crapshoot here than Erin Hills. It also wound its way through rolling hills. But there is quite a bit more elevation change at Ballyneal, and rather than an "out and back" hole routing where the holes run alongside each other, Ballyneal winds around through the hills on what is certainly a larger plot of land, and there is a more solitary feel since the holes are more spread out.

While wayward shots were probably more punitive than Erin Hills, the fairways themselves were also quite a bit wider so it was more difficult to get in trouble. The greens themselves were also quite memorable, many of them featuring large swales which created zones, and you didn't want to end up in the wrong one. The twelfth green is the most obvious example of this...words cannot do it justice.

Ballyneal also seems to take some pride in its remote setting. It requires seven miles of dirt road to get there



And your arrival is noted by a small sign by the side of the road, with no holes or structures visible from the entrance



Upon arrival, we were immediately accosted by the course mascot and impossibly friendly cat, Bunker



For those who don't like cats, Bunker was a lot like a dog. He enjoyed having his belly scratched and would hang out around the clubhouse, stalking both insects and people that came near. When we came back through after the first round I found him curled up on a chair near the front door



The first hole is a short par-4 which plays uphill. There is nothing overly tricky about it, thus adhering to the philosophy many architects have about leading with a hole that can get people off to a good start.



There were apparently only a dozen or so people playing all day, but we went off directly behind a foursome. They were actually quicker than the two of us and we never had to wait on them. They can be seen here off in the distance, on the green of the long par-4 2nd hole which measures nearly 500 yards.



The 2nd tee is also the high point on the course. Turning to the left, here is a picture looking towards the west. In the foreground is the first green, and off in the distance is the 4th green and the 7th fairway.



It was said that the short par-4 3rd (under 150 yards from the back tee) was the first hole designed, and the rest of the course unfolded from there. It's got a green which sits in a bowl and right hole locations like this are nearly blind from the back tees.



The first round we got some unexpected rain, particularly on the 4th hole. This picture is from the fourth tee in our afternoon round, when the view was much clearer. It is the longest hole on the course but still possibly reachable with a good drive. It plays down off the tee and then back up to the green.



This is a shot of the 7th green from the 4th fairway. The grass flows continuously between these two holes.



The 6th hole is a long (480 yards) uphill par-4 which probably plays into the wind more often than not. It's also a blind tee shot, only upon walking up to the fairway do you see that it's one of the widest landing areas on the course. Our caddy gave us the wrong line to take off the tee. In the first round I did the unthinkable and hit a straight drive only to end up in a bunker to the left of the fairway. The second time I ignored his advice and hit a drive which he claimed would be right of everything only to find it in the fairway.

As is often the case with long par-4s, the green is fairly manageable with no greenside bunkers, just a couple of collection areas (although the one right of the green was fairly deep).

The course flaunts convention by not handicapping holes even and odd on each nine. They just number them hardest to easiest regardless of where they fall on the course - as I was unable to find a rating/slope for this course it's possible it's never been rated and that may be the reason they can do this. Anyway, the sixth hole is the #1 rated hole on the course.



On a course full of unique holes, the 7th may be the most interesting of them all. It's a short par-4 of not longer than 350 yards, the last 100 yards of which plays to a green which sits in a swale. In this picture you can see the top of the flag off in the distance, just to the left of a greenside bunker.



Here is a view from the fairway. I yanked my wedge, which landed up on the hill and fed down to the green...and into the bunker. My friend also yanked his wedge, but since it was a few yards deeper it held the green.

The green complex itself is very long and narrow, so I imagine the hole would play a lot different with front right or back pin positions.

Note: the yardage book lists six possible settings for each hole, A-F. For the 7th, there is one setting all the way back, but the other five are clustered in the middle and front of the green.



The 8th hole is a short par-5 - one of only three par-5s on the course - and one of the easier holes by par. Here is where my second shot ended up, behind and to the left of the green, but playable.



This is probably the favorite picture that I took all day. It is from the 9th tee looking back down the 8th hole. I took this same picture both rounds but am using the afternoon round pic here since it looks better with the sun out.



One of the unique things about Ballyneal is the teeing grounds: there are no tee markers and you can tee off wherever you feel like - perhaps this has something to do with the course not being rated. This picture is from the 13th tee. It basically requires hitting over the back part of the 12th green (foreground) and is a balmy 510 yards from this box. In the afternoon round I pummeled a drive and still had a full 6-iron in and was able to get a par, which was probably my most satisfying accomplishment of the day.



Turtle in a bunker on the 13th. Wanted no part of us and gtfo as soon as we came along.



Picture from the 13th green looking back down the hole - clubhouse and lodge complex in the distance.



Here is an example of the "tee off wherever you want" philosophy. This is just off the 13th green, and is not an actual teeing ground, just a flat area. The caddy recommended teeing off here, so we did. Note the other divots in this area as it was apparently a popular option to slogging up a hill to the right to the back tee.



Another great thing about the course was the variety of length of holes. Of the eleven par-4s, two were over 500 yards, four were between 400-500 yards, and five were under 400 yards. The 352 yard 14th hole was one of the short ones, a dogleg with a large dropoff right of the green and a visual which obscures the left side of the green on approach and mentally steers you to that collection area.



The par-3 distances were just as good of a mix. Only one is over 200 yards, the 15th. It clocks in at 237 yards from the back, but plays downhill and likely downwind most of the time. The green is at the bottom of a bowl so most shots hit close to the green will feed on.

This picture was from a slightly obscured tee that we played from in our afternoon round. The 11th green can be seen in the distance.



The 17th is a rambling par-4 which plays back towards the clubhouse off in the distance. Here is me and my friend on that tee in the afternoon round. I am one giving the Phil-approved thumbs-up while trying to keep a cigar lit in an attempt to finish it before the end of the round.



Here is a picture at dusk from our lodge room. Other guests were playing bocce ball on the lawn which doubles as a chipping area.



Not pictured, the property features a full bar and a separate restaurant, both of which were ridiculously nice and the food was outstanding.

The next morning I got down to the clubhouse early to get our clubs so we could head to our next destination, Bear Dance near Colorado Springs. The only one there to greet me was Bunker, who was hanging out on his favorite chair. Scratched him until someone showed up and we got our sticks and hit the road.



Will post about Bear Dance in the next day or so, but suffice it to say Ballyneal was the highlight of a trip with a lot of golf highlights.

I can't remember exactly, but I think it had something to do with "nearest relief", and the nearest relief from the drainage cover would put him on the cart path, and the nearest relief from there would be the grassy side of the cart path. I think even he admitted it was a little loose but he had agreed to a very bad bet early in the round so we were fine giving him benefit of the doubt.

Your caddie carried both bags 36 holes? Wow, not sure I could do that. How much did he get paid/tipped?

Yeah, it was a bitch. Plus he said he was very hungover from the night before. I repeatedly offered to let him beg out after the first round and after 27 holes, particularly after he got woozy from some chewing tobacco my friend gave him at the start of the second round.

I made the mistake of not researching proper tip prior and the face-palmingly bad decision to ask him at the end what standard tip should be. He said that when double looping the regular charge is $60/bag (per person) per round. So, $120 each for both rounds. My friend and I had earlier agreed that we'd give $100 each and that would certainly be overtipping, only to find out that was lower than the alleged minimum. I gave $150 and my friend gave $120.

My educated guess was based off of the Erin Hills number, which was "recommended" $45 per round and was every bit as pricey a course. I imagined that a guy carrying two bags would make less per person since he wasn't dedicated to a single player. Apparently I was wrong about this, or he took advantage of my naivete and letting him dictate the number. Not to cheap out, but if I play there again I'll carry my bag the second round since by that point I was familiar with the course and he wasn't bringing anything new to the table.

All that said, to his credit he lugged them without complaint and it was apparently around 17 miles for both rounds combined. My feet and legs in general were incredibly sore for the next couple of days and I didn't have to carry anything.

I switched to the Peregrine set in your honor

Don't do it for me, do it for yourself! The combination of long-ish irons (some of those woods-heavy sets don't seem to go very low on the irons) coupled with useful lofted woods AND a flop wedge make it my set of choice. Used to toggle between a couple of other sets before the Peregrines came out but now just stick with these.

Anyway, final course of the trip: last Tuesday we played Bear Dance (http://www.beardancegolf.com), a scenic layout in between Denver and Colorado Springs. Fairly high-end daily fee track. It was the day after Ballyneal so I tried to temper my expectations. Bear Dance didn't have Bunker the Cat, which was not good, and it had some houses on the course - with plenty of lots undeveloped and still for sale - which was not good either, but the layout was spacious and the houses were all very nice. Would definitely play this course again. Rates ranged from $90-105 that I saw.

The lowest rate ($90) was obtained by booking EXACTLY seven days in advance, which we did, else it is a bit higher before and after for whatever reason. There may be better deals on golfnow or similar sites but I booked directly through the course. It may also be higher on weekends, dunno. We played an additional nine - the front nine a second time - and paid $35 to do so. Fair enough.

Allegedly this course stretches to 7726 yards, but that is one of those phantom things where many didn't have any tees at that length (even if you measured to the very back of the each back teebox it didn't add up). We played the allegedly 7344 yard distance but it didn't play nearly that long, primarily due to elevation. Many holes this was the back tee which made the mystery tips even more confusing.

For example regarding the length, the first hole (below) is a par-4 of 479 yards on the card. Both rounds I hit a 3-iron off the tee and then an 8-iron to pin high. Granted it was downhill, which matters a fair amount, but indicative of the elevated tees making the course play shorter. Landing areas were plenty generous.



The 4th hole is a downhill, dogleg par-4 measuring around 430 yards. There is a cutoff at around 300 yards which makes it an iron, hybrid, or maybe 3-wood off the tee. I should have taken a picture of this green because it is multi-tiered and a good example of the very challenging green complexes on the course, and the importance of hitting your approach to the correct side of the hole (being above the hole is very bad much of the time).



The fifth tee is the low part of the course. It's a long, uphill double dogleg par-5 of 600+ yards which probably also plays into the wind most of the time. This picture was taken during our second play through. I-25 can be seen in the background.



This picture kinda sucks because it was shot into the sunlight later in the day, but it is from the elbow of the initial dogleg which can be seen at the far right part of the picture above. It's around 280 yards to get home from here.



The 6th hole is theoretically a drivable par-4 (353 / 329 from the two back tees per the card) and since we had nothing to lose we tried, but our biggest drive could only catch a front bunker. From a satellite view, the bunkers to the front and right of the green are designed to look like a bear paw. The hole plays downhill a bit but also into the wind for us, and probably most of the time. The longer hitters among us can probably reach, but being left with a 30 yard bunker shot sucks, particularly since the green is tiered and elevated.



The 7th is a long, downhill par-3 with a carry over a pond. It's another mystery distance because the card says it's 249 yards from the back but I gunned it at around 230 to a back hole location. Nice hole though. Here is me with the patented PHIL THUMBS-UP.



Although there isn't a bad hole on Bear Dance, the back nine is where the course shines. It's quieter and the holes are more remarkable. Here is a shot from the par-4 11th, which stretches to nearly 500 yards and plays downhill the whole way.



View in to the green from the dogleg:



From the tee of the par-4 14th hole. The card may say 442 yards but it plays way, way shorter than that as it is way downhill. It's a very sharp dogleg so adventurous, accurate players can bomb it over the trees and cut off about 100 yards.



From our fairway approach distance, downhill to the green at 14.



Presumably the signature hole, the 16th, which plays massively downhill to a green guarded closely by a pond, and a deceptive green which rolls very quickly in that direction. This one also probably plays into the wind most of the time. My 3-wood ballooned in the air and spun back a few feet when it finally landed.



The short, uphill par-3 17th hole. Good little hole which measures to around 145 yards and is guarded by a small pond and river to the right. The standard "swing too hard with a wedge, pull it left" shot won't get punished here because there is a modest slope left and behind the green which may kick it back to the right and is a reasonable chip otherwise.



Another good track which I hope to play again. The $90 rate was reasonable considering the weather was perfect and the course was in good condition with smooth, fast greens.

Awesome freaking thread Tuq. I read on Ballyneal's site that you can possibly play as a non-member for a limited time, I might have to do that the next time I'm out there if true.

I particularly enjoyed the Bear Dance writeup, only because I played there quite a few times. I feel much better that a near scratch golfer mentioned the greens. I find the course to be a pretty easy drive/approach course provided you don't get sucked in wrt distances and elevation changes, but damn the greens are big and tough.

And you're exactly right about #6, no sense in driving the green when there is a very good chance you're left with an impossible up-and-down. TBH I think they boned that hole making the green so difficult, the bunkers are penal enough imo.

Nice TR.

Nice pics again...crazy how long that 145 hole looks in pictures! Pictures add like 50 yards to holes in feels like

Good thread - enjoy yourself

Sorry I didn't catch this 'til now. I woulda joined you for Erin Hills. I live in Milwaukee. I've golfed the Straits and the Bull at Pinehurst, but definitely want to hit up Erin Hills in the next year or two.

Great photos. I golfed at TPC Deere Run in June and had great weather. The course was amazing, but what blew me away more than anything was the signs in their restrooms that advertised membership prices: $2500 for unlimited golf, cart, locker, range, practice facilities, and discounted food, bev, and merch. That's a deal like you won't find at very many golf courses that nice.

"Welcome to Ballyneal Golf Club. This website is a portal to expose Ballyneal to golfers that appreciate and respect the traditions, the camaraderie and the challenge of golf."

I found this on the front page of their website. Thanks for the write up. This looks like a fantastic experience.

Thanks for the follow-up, it's good to hear another opinion, particularly someone with so much knowledge of the course.

Funny thing is, I could probably have written 2X as much about each course but figured most wouldn't read it anyway. For example, at Bear Dance I left out mentioning the short downhill par-3 12th, which as you probably agree has the most extreme green on the course. Rather than tiered like almost all of the others, it has a tremendous tilt from back left to front right that's almost impossible to over-read.

The flag that day on 6 was on a very small shelf on the front right of the green. One advantage to hitting it down there as far as possible is to maximize the chance of getting the ball on the same level as the hole, but being stuck in one of the sand traps 40-50 yards out was not a solution. Good hole. Best play is probably to hit 3-wood or something to get in the 80-100 yard range, close but still short of all the sand.

Re: Erin Hills, that's a shame. Assuming the time of day worked for you we would have played together because they initially put me with a twosome and then another guy called that morning and filled out our group.

Would have been good to get another data point on the whole Straits vs. Erin Hills thing, although there's no rule that says one has to choose. At Bear Dance, the drink girl noticed my Erin Hills tag which I forgot to remove (after awhile my golf bag looks like 70s porn star bush with all the **** hanging off of it). She was from Wisconsin and knew of the course. I mentioned Ballyneal too. She said her boyfriend, who was an assistant pro at Bear Dance, had played Straits, Erin Hills, AND Ballyneal. I asked her to check with him and let us know how he ranked them. Well, she came back around and he said that his rankings were Straits > Erin Hills > Ballyneal. I can believe the first two, but there is no goddamned way that Erin Hills > Ballyneal. That would make me question someone's taste and credibility. Erin Hills is great but Ballyneal is special.

re: membership at Deere Run, that's a hell of a deal and highlights how affordable country club memberships seem to be in the midwest. They are ridiculously pricey out here by comparison.

Additional research when I went to post my scores revealed that they can't rate the course because they don't have fixed markers, nor do they want to. Apparently one rule at the club is the winner of the hole gets to choose the tee on the next one. In any event it frees up the golfer to mix up his experience, e.g. make the 7th hole drivable one round, or tee off from behind the 17th green for the 18th hole, effectively making it a 550+ yard finisher, etc.