The guys planning the trip have definitely considered overseeding. I got an email this morning that said that the reason we arent playing We Ko Pa is because of overseeding.

Guys -

I'm VERY new to golf, but headed to AZ for spring training this year (an annual trip). For the first time, I played out there at Orange Tree. Just out of curiosity, how does this compare to other PHX-area golf courses?

Thanks,

hd

humdinger,

"headed to AZ for spring training this year"

I'm confused since spring training just ended and the next one is 11 months away.

Anyway, Orange tree is boring. Flat, straight, not much imagination. In its defense it was probably one of the very first non-municipal courses built here so very little was expected back then. It is different than its contemporaries in that it is as you know not a desert course whatsoever. As for that, I always try to steer people to at least one non-desert course if they are making a golf trip, as the relentless fiddling around in the desert can get old for people who aren't low handicappers.

Good points tuq and I agree that if you're not a single digit handicap desert golf after a few days will make you want to shoot yourself...

Also, the Raven and The Legacy were mentioned and I agree that these are good alternatives to the desert golf experience. If you are playing summertime golf I recommend Kierland (shameless plug) as they have air-conditioned golf carts, covered range and decent prices especially twi and super twi.

lawl

Sorry for the confusion. I headed (past tense) to AZ for this past spring training. Orange Tree was the first 18 hole course (well, par 72) I ever played. I shot just under a billion, but thought it was on the easy side (wide open and flat). But having never seen another par 72 course in my life (except on TV!), I just wanted to know how it compared.

Thanks for the comments. It just helps me gain a feel for the golf world.

hd

I used to play Kierland ~5 times a year for years but since the hotel has been completed I've maybe played it once. That captive hotel audience and the attendant prestige have resulted in price hikes that no longer make it a good value for us. The guy in the office next of mine has some sort of connection and knows the staff and says he never pays, so maybe I should ride his coattails.

The thing about Kierland is, playing the Acacia nine is a must. While the other two nines are nice also (I'm partial to Ironwood, but Mesquite is fine too), Acacia is the best by a mile. Three par 5s and three par 3s, substantial elevation change, and the final hole which plays from the high point of the course down to the foot of the hotel. We always seemed to have bad luck and drew the other two nines, but typically found our way onto Acacia anyway at the turn.

Yes the hotel is what pretty much drove me away from there...too many hotel meetings that had absolutely nothing to do with the golf course yet I had to attend. And by far and away Acacia was the best while Ironwood was the hardest and Mesquite was just the off nine...I recently looked at the website and rack is $210 this year LOLZ. When I was there really no one played for free except for Uecker, we even got MJ and Barkley for cart fees

I will re-qualify whether he plays for free or not. He isn't the bragging type but I swear that's what he said.

Also, the 2nd hole on the Mesquite nine is the first time I ever eagled a par-4. I had several holes-in-one to my credit by that time but for some reason only a few years ago did I finally get a two on a par four, this one coming from around 100 yards out. I remember another time playing Acacia-Ironwood I got it to -4 after ten and then blew up and finished at about +6. Talk about a complete meltdown. I guess I'll take some comfort in you saying that Ironwood is the hardest. I used to enjoy going to that bar Half Moon by the 8th tee after the round and watching people play while we drank beer. I heard the owner had a substantial drug problem and drove it into the ground, which is a shame because now it's a goddamned bank. What a waste of a view.

Half Moon ftw! We would park out carts behind 8 tee and hang there, I always loved that place so sad to see the management run it into the ground. And for the record my intent with the post above wasn't to discredit your friend, management has changed and for all I know so has comp procedures. I'm sure he knows one of the shop staff or something and they hook it up for him.

mm,

I know you weren't trying to discredit him, no biggie. And the reason I shared my boring anecdote about -4 to +6 is that remarkably, despite playing at a somewhat high level my whole life, I had never broken par over 18 holes at that point. It was probably in my head, but I had countless +1 or +2 rounds over the years. So there I was, coming off the Acacia at -3 and birdieing the 10th (1st on Ironwood), and then I totally crapped myself. Whoops. I remember going to play Wildfire (Faldo) that afternoon and recovered to shoot like a 75. Also, I finally broke my under par cherry with a 69 at the Raven, then shot 69 the next day at the Legacy, and then circled back to the scene of the crime some time later with a 69 at Kierland. Funny how easy it was once I did it the first time. Of course it helps that the three courses I cited are all fairly forgiving.

OK, I'll stop rambling now.

A few others I have played:

Camelback: not good.

The Wigwam: not good.

The Boulders: good but way overpriced.

Going to fly into Phoenix June 22nd and be in the area for a week almost exclusively for golf. What courses are great for the price? Any cool golf shops/restaurants/putt-putt we should try to check out? First time out west for me, any tips to deal with the dry heat?

I'll merge this into the Phoenix golf thread (no worries, it's buried) as it's pretty helpful, and feel free to let us know of any additional questions you may have.

Also, addressing this post, and I'm sure it's written above, play We-Ko-Pa if you can, play Grayhawk and TPC only if you get a sweet price.

You may want to look into golf packages, which essentially provide a discount by bulk purchase.

Mostly though, after reading that Vegas thread, you may want to check out www.golfnow.com and see what's out there. A guy planned his whole trip around that site and got some pretty smokin' deals.

There are a ton of good restaurants in Scottsdale/Phoenix. Depends on what ethnicity you are looking for I suppose.

The heat in June is like a hammer on your head in the afternoon but it's not humid so drink lots of water and if you are a true golf junkie you'll get around fine. Otherwise just play in the morning and spend the afternoon by the pool or whatever.

Tuq...in summer what are your Top 10-20 courses for a bunch of guys- in scottsdale- who hit 90s to 110s to play? Assuming we can play them for under $70 bucks...even if its is at like 12 or 1pm...heat be damned!

Geez, for under $70 you can play pretty much anywhere in the afternoon including Troon North. So price is not an object in that range.

If you're looking for a nice course that isn't too hard though I'd stick to somewhat wide open tracks like Whirlwind. Although that's not in Scottsdale...

Definitely Kierland. Overpriced now since they built the resort and jacked up prices but things are cheaper this year. One of the most forgiving courses there are and a lot of fun.

Eagle Mountain is the same. Desert layout, true, but a lot of holes are set in a bowl so errant shots feed into the fairway.

TPC Champions (formerly Desert) is a great, fairly forgiving course that gives discounts to locals I believe.

Papago is wonderful after the remodel, and I think they have five tees so you can choose your own adventure. It's desert golf but fairly wide open.

Talking Stick is known for its wide fairways, although if you stray too far - especially on the North course, you will have problems.

McCormick Ranch is IMO a great couple of courses when in shape (not always the case in the summer) that when played from the whites is manageable for high handicappers. Very little desert but lots of trees.

Karsten/ASU has always struck me as a bit goofy but it's generally in good shape and wayward shots usually leave you in grass but often surrounded by high burms.

Those are the Scottsdale area ones that come to mind that are high-end but not too tough. If you want to go a notch lower (and cheaper) you end up with courses like Camelback, Silverado, Starfire, all pretty forgiving and in the case of the latter two, pretty short.

I was also told today - and I find this almost impossible to believe, but in this economy who knows - that Estancia - one of the two top 100 courses in the country in AZ per Golf Digest and one of the more exclusive courses in the state - is going to start letting the public in. I'll be looking into that tonight to see if there's any truth to it.

I'd definitely look at golfnow.com before you contact a course directly, especially for afternoon summer rates.

Of all re courses I've played here so far(not many)
Superstition Springs and Desert Canyon were my favorite.

I don't really like vanilla gold courses that are dull.

So what is you top 15 must play when in PHX?

Top courses I played when I lived there were: ( I was in Chandler, so most of these are in South Phx area)

Lone Tree
Trilogy
Whirlwind
Superstition Springs

When my brother and I went down to Phoenix to see the Flames play the Coyotes during reading week, we played the Raven at Verrado and I thought it was a beautiful course. Anyone else echo those sentiments? I'm looking at you tuq.

We also played a round at the 500 Club later in the week because it was dirt cheap, lol. Obviously nothing spectacular but the mere fact that I was swinging a club in February put a smile on my face.

any decent course within 15-20 minutes of the Sheraton Downtown? Also, one that would rent clubs? I'm an 11 handicap and coming out this week (Wed-Friday) for a seminar and don't want to haul my clubs, but might be able to get away.

Anyone ever played Vista Verde? I've heard really good things about it but its a drive north of where I am in Scottsdale...but the price in the afternoon($50) is good if the reviews I've heard are legit.

I've only played Tonto Verde, which appears to be an adjacent property and is very nice. So I can't help. But searching reveals it to be 7200 yards and if it's remotely in decent shape I bet it's pretty sweet. That's not the part of town where you would find a bad course.

Yeah i found this....and may try and play it next week - only $50 after 1pm and lots of people compare it to WeKoPa etc in terms of overall quality

http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/index....owtopic=234271

Those replies seem legit, and the pics make it seem legit as well. Seems like a no-brainer, although it's kinda weird that you have to check in at Tonto Verde - I wonder if it even has carts?

Definitely a course I want to play soon, haven't really heard anything about it.