durango, I recall when I played out at Pinnacle Peak a few months ago it was a hit and giggle (scramble) and we played up which totally took the teeth out of the course. Pretty sure the 13th hole is a beast from the tips but for us it played 360 like all the other par fours.

MCB, for years I thought Raptor was the signature course and the Talon was its less stellar sister course - maybe because the pros always played Raptor and it finishes right in front of the clubhouse - but I'm starting to come around on that and consider them pretty much equal or at least close. Talon has plenty of challenging holes, ends in similar spectacular fashion - actually the 18th on Talon is substantially more difficult if a little less appealing visually - and seems to be every bit as tough (too lazy to check rating/slope on this). The holes are as interesting too - particularly the drivable par-4 13th and the island green 17th.

Basically I don't think you can go wrong. I'm curious if Talon is priced lower but I suspect they are priced the same.

13 is tough but not really a beast. It's all about the drive. You have to hit a good solid straight drive and even then you still have 170-180 unless you really mash it. Sometimes you can hit a running draw and get it down into wedge/9 iron out.

The green is dicey though and 2 putt is no guarantee!

Thanks, Tuq! The website seems to say they are the same price. I will post reviews next week when I get back.

MCB how about those reviews????

I played Kierland a few times over the last week after work for 9 holes with my buddy who works there. I shot 36 on Mesquite on Monday and then 38 today on Ironwood. Reasonable scores obviously but Kierland is so damn easy I needed to make a few more birdies.

I played Kierland last weekend for the first time in several years, since they built the hotel and jacked the rates (currently $95 with Troon Cardo ffs, brutal). Mesquite/Acacia (non-standard order). Also shot 74 but with a huge asterisk cuz I had to play one tee up and that course is easy enough from the tips.

Anyway, the greens were ridic good, just could not believe how nice they were and I've been seeing some good greens this year. And they were fast.

Played Ocotillo the day before and those greens were really top notch also but Kierland's were a bit better. So at least for the price we got a course in great shape.

Ooh... TY for the reminder.

Day 1: Grayhawk (Raptor) Pricey, but really a beautiful course. Some great views from the tees, greens were immaculate, and really fast. The course was somehow empty on a Thursday morning, so after finishing 18 and eating lunch, we tried to play the Talon course, but they wouldn't budge on their replay rate (forget exactly, I think $200 the first go around, then they wanted $150 for the 2nd 18 maybe?, pfff.)

Grayhawk pro shop


She said that.


Nice par 3


10 tee looking at 18 green


So instead of pay the $150, we went back to Fountain Hills and played Eagle Mountain for $99 twilight rate. First hole was a 568 par 5, driver left 218, 5 iron pin high right. It was downhill ldo, but a fun opener. Really liked this course, it was cheaper than some of the other courses, great views, lots of neat holes with elevation changes. Great option for those not wanting to pay top dollar and still get the full desert experience.

Think this is the 1st but might be another 5 on the front, I forget.


230 yd par 3, tough hole.


Day 2: Had some other stuff to do so got an early morning 18 in at Desert Canyon in Fountain Hills. Meh golf, but it was cheap. Felt more like a Florida course, with many flat-ish holes and unnatural looking palm trees. Not really pricey though, so I guess worth checking out if you want a quick round.

Only good pic is of the Fountain Hills fountain


Day 3: We-ko-pa Saguaro and Cholla
We had originally just booked Saguaro, but since they were able to adjust 2 of our rates to AZ resident rates, and seemed to have a better deal to play both courses than Grayhawk... 36 it was. Only have pics of Saguaro though, phone battery died. Saguaro: Really a thinking man's golf course. Wide fairways for the most part, but the green complexes were some of the best I have ever played. Short holes get hellish greens and pin placements, really making you work for par. Longer holes seem to have bigger greens, but still a real challenge. Love this course more every time I play it. Only complaint is that some of the holes were repetitive... Semi blind drive up/over a bluff, then down and back up to the green. Cholla: Lots of elevated tees, seems to be more standard desert target golf. Although, even if you spray it off the tee, the desert isnt too shabby to play out of (trust me, I know)




360 degree panorama from one of the fairways



Day 4: Firerock. My favorite course of the lot. The whole experience was first class. At the range, they had a coffee station, plenty of tees, ball markers, even tylenol to shake off any hangovers. Plus a kid there to wipe your clubs down as you were practicing. A few of the tee boxes had coolers full of freezing cold apples, perfect thing for when it started getting warm. There wasnt a stitch of grass out of place, and I heard they just fired their greenskeeper too! Can't imagine anyone doing a better job but I guess I'll find out next winter.

Tuq - yeah kierlands green's are blazing fast right now! They don't look all that fast but all of sudden your ball is halfway there on a 10 footer and you're like sitttttttttttttt. FUn course as always.

Nice pics M, I agree on Firerock...love that course. There's lots of variety and the homes around the course are awesome. Course was immaculate when I played it last year as well.

I brought my sticks to the office today so i am sending out mass texts to all my buddies today to get me a round in somwhere...we'll see if it works out

Desert Canyon is way too boxed in to feel like a real course. Just about anywhere else in Scottsdale/Fountain Hills > Desert Canyon.

I would also throw in another recommendation for Vista Verde. It's consistently one of the best values in the state imo. The course itself isn't spectactular but pretty wide open and in great condition.

Finally played Vista Verde back in January. It was a lot of fun, the only weird thing was they gave the grounds crew the day off even though it was a holiday and there was a lot of play. So the greens hadn't been mowed and were noticeably fuzzy. Not too much of a complaint though because they were still plenty fast and it was clear they would be much more difficult if they had been mowed.

In defense of Desert Canyon (nee Fountain Hills CC), it was built back in the 70s when expectations were a lot lower, and for probably at least a decade if not 20 years was the only course in all of Fountain Hills. It's like, I think Orange Tree is boring as hell but then I remember that it was one of the first courses in town so they really weren't expected to do a lot with the layout.

Firerock is pretty cool, but not sure how accessible it is to the public so I never recommend it.

Also, lol @ Grayhawk not giving a replay rate discount to people who already paid full fare that day.

Are there any driving ranges where i can hit from grass tees, preferably scottsdale area? I go hit at cracker jax and its annoying to hit off mats.

McCormick Ranch is just a couple miles down the road

Yeah, I guess I will go to courses and practice. Just don't always like dressing up in golf attire.

There are a lot of good choices up near CrackerJax. My recommendation by far is the range at TPC Champions Course, just a couple of miles away. Always found the range to be fairly empty and the facilities are solid.

Other good nearby options: Kierland, Camelback, McCormick Ranch, Grayhawk, Wildfire, Stonecreek. Which begs the question: will these facilities allow you to just show up and hit balls without a tee time? Maybe not. But I'm almost positive TPC does because it's a city-run facility and McCormick does as well. The reason I don't know for sure at the other places is I never, ever practice independent of playing.

great pics MCB, cant wait to get out there.... 3 weeks and counting!

Well that would be great if I could do it at tpc. I live 2 miles away. I will contact them and find out.

TPC champions and mccormick for sure sell range balls, they aren't just sitting out there like at camelback or wildfire.

True was just thinking about that. I guess if they sell em you can go there just for range.

Ugh, common sense fail on my part. Courses where there are range balls already stacked = not for sale, ones where you have to buy them = ok to practice.

So yeah, TPC Champions. I have a soft spot in my heart for McCormick since I grew up practicing on it, but the range has always seemed sandy to me, or maybe I'm just imagining it. It's possible they just don't move the stations as often as they should.

So do you guys just not go to range then (other then before golf). Mccormick range just a lil too far, and tpc so close I should just go there.

Champions or stadium or both?

You could definitely go hit balls at Ancala for free. (pretty close to the 101 and Shea, just east a couple miles)

It's private, but members bring guests out all the time and there's no way any of the guys who refill the ball stacks will question you as long as you don't look like a scrub.

The range is a bit lackluster but the grass is tight so oh well.

Obviously you don't want to be out there beating balls for hours every day but one or two times a week is definitely doable.

No, you're definitely correct. Their range in pretty ****ty.

I haven't been this season but I doubt much has changed. You can find a good section here and there if you're lucky but during peak season that sucker is packed so good luck.

It's sandy yeah, I have lessons on the back side of the range which is very nice so I don't really use the front. They do have some decent chipping / bunker areas and a good practice green though.

That's true they do have a decent short game area.

I live right next to ASU so I'm able to use the short game area at Karsten which is pretty goat-ish outside of private clubs. You can go back and hit shots from a ~100 yards because the green is so long from the angle you're hitting from. Nice bunkers too.

But damn do their range sucks balls too. Seems like over half the time they have you hitting off that green mat which is just ridiculous. I'm sure the ASU player's side of the range is pristine though, and rightfully so.

I hate hitting on mats, it's really the worst. I can never get the right feel or w/e. Out of town right now (in NY, lol sucks for these guys, its 29) but when I get back def gonna go to tpc.

Quick question for you guys... What Sedona golf course is better, Oak Creek or Sedona Golf Resort?