Pretty much this. If you're at a nice course you dress and act the part, collared shirt tucked in, no cargo shorts, don't piss on the fairway, etc. Common sense stuff.

I love music and I love golf. If I'm on the course or practice facility and I hear your music, I will kindly ask you turn it off. I have zero interest in listening to your music regardless of genre. Have played in a couple of money games recently where a player had music going, he was asked to turn it off. He complied without hesitation. Again, just common sense stuff.

BO

I don't think it's much different than poker. When you sit at a poker table you are expected to act like a big boy and not be offensive. If you cuss someone out, talk loudly on the phone, play your music too loud or wear something offensive, there are employees to tell you to stop or you will be asked to leave. Why aren't golf course operating similarly?

Of course people are going to push the envelope. That's not a reason to put stuffy, unnecessary and old school rules and restrictions in place.

I've played Arroyo several times, I like it. I almost played today when the Belair round blew up.

I was supposed to play Belair today with Michael Carlin, who is a member and Hollywood exec.
I was headed up the 405, wearing my pants, Jambox and flip flops out of the golf bag, when his assistant called to let me know we were cancelled. He is Joan Rivers business manager and he had just booked a plane to fly to NY to be with her.
Called one of the Pelican members, they had one spot in their three foursomes. Got there with minutes to spare, grabbed the Jambox and the flip flops and a pair of shorts from my locker.
Turns out the guys had 10 players and were trying to figure out a game on the range, when a single asked if he could play. Was Sugar Ray Leonard. He shot a 90, I beat him out of $30 with music blaring, flip flops on and we all had a blast!

Because at a country club, part of what people are paying for is an environment where golfers do the right thing without being scolded by a marshal. A marshal is necessary for these things at a public track, not a private club.

Old school rules huh? Can I assume you're well under 30?

Once again.....

BO

Seems Groucho Marx has a lot of company.

I'm 44. I've been playing golf since I was 7. I play over 150 rounds a year.
And when I said rules I wasn't referring to USGA rules, although thats another issue entirely.

OC lifestyle!! gotta love it.

good story. I still have never made it on to Pelican to be honest .

have been invited before by members i used to work with, but never worked out. Also im still younger (27) so not totally balling it up to be paying Pelican green fees on a regular basis. Also, really want to play Shady someday

I knew you didn't mean USGA rules.

Question - if someone asked you to turn off your music while on the golf course, what would you do?

BO

Of course I would turn it down so they couldn't hear it, or off. But it's never happened, because I understand there are people that don't like it, and I am a considerate music player.

Cool. Glad to hear it. (or not hear it )

BO

I guess I just don't understand being fine with rules, dress codes, and etiquette, but also fine with pushing the envelopes of the standards. You either agree with them or you don't.


I understand my stance is very traditionalist in nature and I don't expect everyone to go to lengths to fit that mold on their own. I hate to admit this, but last year was the first year I allowed myself to wear shorts on the course. The fact is though, that some people think rules and/or social standards don't apply to them for a variety of reasons, so these "stuffy, unnecessary and old school rules and restrictions" are in place and have to be enforced because if they're not, you'd have people at nice clubs wearing jeans and a sloppy T-shirt. It's the same as going to a nice restaurant. Part of paying a bit more for "fancy" is the ambiance, and sitting across from a guy dressed like Larry the Cable Guy (a total fake and phony, btw. He doesn't even have an accent) with a ripped sleeve flannel and hunting cap, and his wife wearing a flourescent traffic-yellow shirt and tie-dye shorts...it just kills the atmosphere.

So yes, it's I guess within the rules for you to be out there in sandals, and I'm not going to call you a yahoo (lol?) but I definitely feel it's somewhat out of place at a nicer club. The point isn't necessarily about the sandals, but where to draw the line. Sippery slope and all that jazz, eventually when you push, the line breaks.

Honestly have never heard of playing music on the course. Is this common? I am not a stickler for rules, and I only play munis, but I would probably ask someone to turn the music off. One of the nice things (for me) about golf is that it combines a game with a nice quiet walk in a park. Music would def. detract from my enjoyment.

Getting back to the OP, golf is struggling because it is still largely seen as an old rich white person's game. The PGA tour isn't helping. The players are boring, bland, conservative, and (with one notable exception) white white white.

Young people like things that are inclusive and hip and that don't have a lot of fixed rules. Snowboarding, surfing, ultimate, etc. Pretty much the opposite of golf... especially at country clubs. The very concept of an "exclusive" club seems lame and douchey to today's young people.

We play music all the time (private course). It would be uncommon to not play it. We don't play it loud and no other groups can hear it. If by some chance I'm playing with guys I haven't played with before, I'll ask if they mind before turning it on. If they do mind, I don't play it. It's that simple.

Beats Pill FTW. Fits perfectly in my water bottle holder in my hoofer.

i see black and asian etc peeps all the time tho(and across all ages)--definitely much more so than i did when i was younger.

True there are some black and Asian players on the public courses but white older players are still the overwhelming majority. And good luck finding black players at a private country club.

I can say at my local muni rounds are way down this year in spite of great weather in the northeast. Parking lot is half-full on weekend mornings when it used to be packed. The guys at the desk confirmed to me that rounds played were down substantially. The game is just getting less popular. I play as a single often and am almost always paired with people aged 50+. The game is just not very popular with young people, and I think the image of golf as an elitist game for retirees and businessmen is a main reason.

LOL revots I think you exaggerating here. I would estimate the % of black members at my club is about equal to the % of the black people in the area who make above the median income. Same with asians. Golf is pretty rare among Latinos and Indians though

I've probably played 1500 rounds of golf at a wide variety of private courses (mostly in the northeast, some in Florida) over my life. I've never heard someone playing music, or even given any thought to it until now. Pretty sure that'd piss me off really badly. Can you not put in headphones? Hearing people on public transit listening to stuff without headphones is one of the more annoying things I see... nobody wants to hear it. I'm not sure I'd want to go confront someone who was playing it quietly, but doesn't mean it's not annoying.

I've been playing at a nice private course for most of my life, and joined a couple years ago on my own. I'm 30, and there are very few people my age at my club (I probably know about 6 25-35 year old members). It doesn't surprise me in the slightest that golf is on the decline. It's a slow and expensive game that's hard to get into. The country club attitude is not helpful to getting new people into the game... it's pretty much you grow up with parents that are members or you don't really get into it.

I mean I'm a pretty moderate guy (I'd be called conservative by most of my friends) and I got called (someone jokingly) a socialist by some guys at my club. I wouldn't even call my club stuffy compared to a lot of places I've played. It's not amazingly expensive, and has a pretty wide variety of members.

I don't know what the solutions are. Clubs will at some point need to make membership more attractive to younger people. At the same time, I don't think allowing people to wear jeans and tank tops is going to help anything. Why do you care if you have to wear khaki shorts and a collared shirt? It's not a big deal and hardly seems worth arguing about or getting upset over. If a lot of crappier clubs or public courses go under at some point, it's not going to be the end of the world.

Just some rambling thoughts.

Not that I'm a huge traditionalist, but I was like wtf when you said you played music off the jambox on the course. I'd be so pissed off if I heard music. Although it does seem set

Can't speak to your club, but I am fairly certain that the percentage of black members of country clubs is far far lower than the percentage of black people in the general population.

Even accounting for income I'd wager higher-income whites join country clubs at a much higher rate than higher-income blacks.

One problem is that golf is too expensive in general and country clubs especially. Here in my area of NJ it's at least $65-70 to play a muni on the weekends with a cart. That's a lot of money on a weekly basis for regular players. Some counties do offer resident cards that give lower rates but they are still around 50 bucks with a cart.

As for country clubs, they are out of reach for almost all middle class golfers, which only helps reinforce the game's image as a snobby pastime for rich old conservatives.

The music can't be heard across the course, just in your own group. At least that's how we do it. I'm 29, the youngest member at my club, and guys that I normally play with are 45-60.

Edit: I just chatted with my buddy who's the same age as me and plays at a nice club ($40k initiation) and he says that some people in his normal game listen to music on their phone but it's not common by any means.

Did you look at SACC? Different type of client, but also in the small circle of those you mentioned that are in coastal OC.

Grunchin a bit..

I just moved into an area. There are several clubs in the area that I am thinking about joining as for the first time in my life my commute time is about a 5 minutes to the office so I can play after work.

Is it SOP to be able to play a round before joining (never a member before)? I assume for more exclusive clubs you need to be sponsored to even be considered. With the membership woes nowadays I just want to know how to approach moving into an area where I know nobody to join. I assume just give a call and explain to the person on the other end my situation, no?

Played it quite about back in 08/09. Just don't like the course that much.

Of course you should play a round. Membership directors should/will arrange it with members.

Really give it a lot a lot of thought and meet as many members as possible. Like a fraternity, you will spend a lot of time with these people.

Yes. I played a complementary round on one of my new club's courses after my wife and I toured, then got a complementary *dinner* (minus alcohol) at their restaurant (value > $50, easily, could've ordered more). It was pretty fantastic. Make sure you ask though before your tour concludes, the membership coordinator is much more likely to give you what you ask for in terms of introductory free stuff than the other staff.