I'm interested what the 2+2 golf community thinks about the role that country clubs are playing (and perhaps will play) in getting younger generations - in particular people under the age of 40 - back into golf as a regular activity.

Anecdotally, I was raised playing golf in a country club since I was fortunate enough to have a father who loved the game and consistently encouraged me to play. I'm now 27, and have joined my own country club in North Carolina with a Junior Executive membership that I have been able to comfortably afford thanks to the greatly reduced rate and waived initiation fee. However, I am actually switching clubs in mid-October, and one of the biggest reasons is that I am now the youngest member at my club by 11 years, and have consistently felt as though many of the older (55+) members think that younger golfers like myself disrupt their "traditional" ambiance. Obviously, given the demographic breakdown of the club, there are very few social events targeted at younger demographics which has also made my wife reluctant to involve herself in the club's activities.

I cannot imagine that this kind of a situation is unique to my club. I know that most of the complaints lodged against golf by non-golfers and occasional golfers have to do with pace of play, but I have to wonder if the attitudes of more senior golfers toward those "damn kids" and the stereotypes/prejudices that those attitudes bring to country clubs also have a lot to do with diminishing any aspiration to join a club by generations under the age of 40. Golf is as much about community as it is about competition in my mind, and perhaps shedding some of the traditional elitism and scorn for new ideas and creativity could be stalling a new age of prosperity for the game. Obviously, the introduction of Junior Executive and other membership plans is a clear indication that some club GMs are thinking in this direction, but it doesn't look to me like many are pressing very hard on the recruiting front to start pulling the average member age below 55. I would have expected to hear about more initiatives at places like graduate schools, Fortune 500 corporations, and post-graduate communities where the 25-35 high-earning potential crowds would be getting started or planting their roots. Perhaps this is already happening and I just don't know about it.

What do you all think? Are any of you younger members of CCs and, if so, do you sometimes feel out of place? Does your club actively pursue younger members and make them feel welcome/take their input seriously?

I don't know if this exactly answers your question, but from what I've seen, so many new public golf courses have been built over the last 20-30 years that private country clubs are becoming somewhat obsolete. Many of these courses have sprung up in areas where the country club was the only course in the area for a long time, or maybe there was one public course somewhat nearby. I think that younger people still play, they just play at the newer public courses - no need to join the country club.

I've seen multiple country clubs convert to semi-public or 100% public over the last 10 years or so to try and compete so maybe that is what their doing to try and draw in younger crowds (of course they really aren't private anymore though).

I live in an area of 100k people and our only country club is dying. Tons of public courses within a 20 mile radius.

I'm 26 and used to be a junior member there for a few years when my grandma was still a member. I was probably 13 and it was like $250 for the summer. Ridiculously cheap. I think family memberships were +5k a year.

My grandpa was a popular member out there for like 30 years but quit playing golf because of a bad back. So he kept getting a membership basically so my grandma could keep playing and so he could hang out in the clubhouse and socialize with the fellas while her and I played.

But since I was a junior I could only play on certain days, even with an adult member. And it had to be before 10am or some **** like that. So we could only play like 4 days a week max.

To add to that, since we didn't have an adult male in the group we were basically treated like second-class citizens out on the course by other players.

I never saw anyone in their 20s or 30s playing it seemed like. Even when I was out there for the club tourney there was nobody young.

So putting all of this info together in my head at the time, it seemed like this place sucked ass and didn't want anybody playing there besides established males in society.

My grandparents quit their membership a couple years after that and so did I. Ever since then when I ask around about how the course is doing, it sounds like it's on the decline. And it sounds like it can't get any new members. Members are either leaving or dying, and not enough new blood can replace them to make up for it. And without appealing to younger members, all the money eventually dries up.

So when you have public courses where a single can get a membership for 1k and a family for 2k, it's really no competition anymore. Maybe 30 years ago when that country club was in much better condition than crap public courses, but in this day and age most decent public courses will rival the quality of private courses. Country clubs definitely need to adapt to the market and change their business model I think. And lose the egos. At least in places like Minnesota where golf isn't that profitable to begin with.

i just joined berkeley hills in atl. It was pretty damn cheap, the course blows 60$ (11-1pm) tee times out of the water. theres a ton of public and private golf here around, but in the first 2 days, I have met up with 3 groups (only 1 was arranged by the starter on the first day). 1 was a 60 year old guy , 1 was a group of 3 late 30 dudes, and 1 was a 60 year old a 50 year old and his 15 year old son. really a great time.

Good points. I would actually dispute the idea that most public/semi-public courses are comparable to private. At least in my area, any course around that has a strong enough design/difficulty to be played regularly ends up suffering from a lot of the ugly symptoms of overplay (footprints all over softer greens, ballmarks, tire tracks in completely unacceptable places, etc.) that make private way more appealing. I've also found that the designs are generally far more aesthetically pleasing, challenging, and interesting at country clubs where huge amounts of money go into the upkeep and maintenance of pristine conditions. For me, it doesn't get any better than a private track with less than 200 rounds per day on average. No pace of play concerns, no wear and tear on tee boxes/greens, just full concentration on my game.

That said, I understand that in order to make clubs affordable and not end up going under, they either have to vastly expand the member base, or go semi-private so that open play golfers can come out here. However, therein lies the catch 22 that makes public/semi-public golf so frustrating as you open the whole thing up to the initial pace of play and course damage problems that made it unappealing to begin with.

I've actually had quite the opposite experience as OP.

I joined my first country club at the age of 24 as a junior single. The club I joined had, like many other clubs in the area, been experiencing a declining membership and offered a pretty juicy deal ($1,500/yr w/o initiation or food minimums). Maybe ~ 5 years earlier, this club was $6k/yr.

When I joined the club, I made a concerted effort to join groups, meet people, play in events, and socialize. My network grew quite quickly and the "old guard" seemed to quickly embrace me. It was actually quite strange to become friends with several parents of kids I graduated near or with in high school.

I've had nothing but positive experiences with the Club and my full intent is to belong to a club for as long as I am playing golf. The perks of pace of play, competition, and course conditions outweigh the cost for me. It's also fun to be able to go out with some members and play fun formats like alternate shot for just a few holes without having to fork over a green fee.

Having moved here to Chicago, it's pretty interesting to see the differences in pricing. The cheapest private club here is probably more expensive than the most exclusive club in my hometown (Dayton, OH). Golf courses are packed with tee times through the week. The money and access to enormous population pools is just different in giant metros.

I (read: my family) have belonged to the same Country Club for my entire life and my experience has been the exact opposite. My Dad still likes to play but doesn't get out as often as he used to - maybe around 15 times a year total and certainly less than 20. When I'm around in the summer time, the club still lets me play on my family membership because they rarely use it and I spend enough through golf and food to meet the minimums.

As far as golf goes, right now there is only one other golfer close to my age who is a member that I play with regularly. He's a bit older than me - I'm 24 and he's 26, but all of the other members at the club don't have a problem including us when we go out to play. Both of us play with the "blue ballers" on Saturday and Sunday mornings who are the most pretentious bunch in the club, but as long as you don't hack it around they are always looking for more players. Hell, even if you do - I shot 81 with them a few weeks ago - it's not really a big deal.

There is also a Thursday night group comprised of mostly older gentlemen that I play with regularly, and the same is true. It also never hurts to socialize and buy a pitcher or two after the round.

Sounds like you just ran bad with the club you joined, hopefully the next one works out better for you.

grunching here but i see lesser country clubs coming way down market. having annual membership and you could pay a capital fee each year (so not a long term $20K to $40K or whatever membership fee) that you have the membership. i think annual memberships will be the future. keep the courses full and make alot of anciliary revenue (courses should definitely keep prime times outside an annual membership though)

so much bad news on the golf side these days. google any of dicks, golf galaxy, taylormade, adidas, adams etc... just a sea of red ink out there. and i think it'll only get much worse as tiger fades from the scene.

very high end country clubs will probably be fine as the best ones probably still have waiting lists. but i'm thinking the 2-3 best in 2MM+ cities.

Not exactly on point.

Country clubs are most certainly declining in popularity. I had a hunch this was coming as many as 10 years ago. A lot of the problem IMO is on the clubs and the board/committee's that run these clubs. They loaded up debt in dumb places (huge clubhouses with enormous banquet facilities primarily) and lost focus of what they are there for. So now they have huge debt that has to be repaid so they need to attract more members to pay their nut. At the same time fewer people are playing golf so there is a smaller pool of people to draw from.

I believe how it will ultimately shake out is you will have premier clubs that will always do well and clubs that are smaller, have less overhead, know who and what they are and just nail it.

For example, here where I live there are 4 clubs that are established well thought of clubs (full disclosure I belong to one of the clubs). 2 of them have a "blue bloody" element and will likely always have members as they tend to join where their parents were, etc. The 3rd is the preeminent golf club in the area. It's main attraction is the golf (although the club is good at virtually everything it does). These clubs will likely always survive (or at least for the forseeable future).

There are also 3 clubs that come to mind that are really, really good at what they do. No one would confuse them with "premier" clubs but they have ok golf, well maintained, good food and generally a good atmosphere for a reasonable fee. These clubs will also survive IMO. They don't have huge outlandish facilities, etc.

Finally there are a bunch of clubs that try to be "premier" but would be better served focusing on the stuff they can control. They sort of change their focus (at least appear to) and then are constantly trying to attract new members with crazy deals, etc. 2 clubs like this have folded in the last 8 or so years and I expect more will follow in the not too distant future.

Good to hear that some people are definitely having better experiences than I have. I wouldn't say that it has been terrible and there are certainly a lot of the older guys with whom I have become great friends, but there are just enough of them to make me rather irritated. Add to that the fact that we have a sole owner who purchased our club about 1.5 years ago who has made himself the Director of Golf and rules the place like we're his employees, and I guess you just have a recipe for a ****ty experience sometimes. Oh well.

On the governance side - those of you who are having good experiences as young members of country clubs with older guys, do you feel like your voice is heard when you have a complaint or recommendation? Do your clubs have boards or committees that you can run for/be appointed to? I would have never really cared about this as much except for the nightmare scenario that I've had with mine, and I'm curious about how that process works at other clubs.

https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/in...124651701.html

hot off the wire, it looks like...

i could not agree more on mid-range country clubs killing themselves by building giant new clubhouses.. probably what a few old people whose lives completely revolve around the country club want. and they are on the key committees at the CC to make this happen.

my dad quit a country club and one of the biggest reasons was a likely capital call (right expression?) or at least higher annual fees due to construction of huge clubhouse.... he was almost 100% just interested in golf (and i guess meeting other golfers but didn't need a huge country club for that)

Not really but the only thing I complain about is the plethora of handicap events :P

I think the decline of golf can be more attributed to the cost to play and it just is to darn slow. I used to play early in the morning to get a quick round in 4 some in 3 hours to 3-1/4. now 4 to 4.5 hours in considered a quick round. Everyone thinks they are a pro and play so slow

I joined a better than average club when I was 26 and have nothing but positives to say about it 4 summers in. The members were all accepting, texting/calling/emailing me to set up games. It took about 2 years to set up my "normal" group which consists of about 20 guys.

The biggest benefit of joining a club is the ability to play 4 holes or whatever before it gets dark or if you just want to try some things that you have been working on out on the course. Playing a fivesome during the day and then a tensome (is that a word?) 2 man scramble to close out a day of golf and gambling.

Anyone know of a good 5 man game besides wolf?

I joined a club this year, I'm 32. From a social aspect, I don't like it at all. It's very stuffy, and almost all the members are typical rich snobs who drink and smoke and are very entitled, and conservative. However, from a golf aspect it's fabulous. It's about 5 minutes from my house (closest public course is over half an hour), the practice facilities are great, and the course is usually completely or mostly empty. So basically it's like I have my own private course down the street from my house, and I just don't talk to anyone anymore or participate in any club activities, I just play golf, which is all I want.

I have been contemplating this exact thing for the past year. I don't think it's necessarily "all country clubs" as it is the people running them individually.
There is a nice CC near me that is making a hard core effort to find younger members, update the facilities and loosen rules. There is another I have looked at that is doing nothing.

Coincidentally I am playing a pretty exclusive LA CC tomorrow and was just told "pants only". This round was intended as an opportunity to see and experience wether to join. Lol.

Yeah its going to be hard to get me to ever join a country club. Don't like the idea of playing just one course, and of course there's all the bureaucracy, BS rules, politics, and snotty rich folk id have to deal with. Maybe if they let me in for free because I was such an awesome golfer. Long live the muni!

wow pants only sounds horrible, so cal is so hot in the summer that's just cruel.

Bel Air? Trip report plz

People that say this have no idea what it is like to belong to a club...if it is a matter of not wanting to pay to join I get that but a good club for an active golfer provides a ton of benefit

You should show up with no shirt / no shoes and then be like, "well you said pants only..."

Oh man. I can feel the jimmies being rustled just imagining that.

Well, that is either Bel-Air or LACC. And if it is LACC, you better be playing the North.

In Los Angeles, best courses are country clubs. They have all reduced their membership cost to join. Sherwood I believe is under $100k and Lakeside circa $30k.

The killer is the monthly dues. You are looking at $1500 a month easy. And good luck getting out. Sell lists at these clubs are 3-4 years so you are stuck paying monthly dues.

Belair.

I am currently a "member" at Pelican Hill (I live in Newport). I've been looking to join something local (NBCC, Shady, Big Canyon), and most of them (with the exception of NBCC) are really doing things to bring the age level down.
I've played most of the LA CC's and like playing them, but am always put off by the stuffiness. Was hoping Belair might be different.

I think of myself as a pretty sophisticated golfer, but I do push the limits some. I always have a Jambox going, and often play in flip flops. I think golf needs to loosen up.

Country Clubs are under severe stress, I live in a large town, have access to many private clubs and am member at one of the top clubs in a town - just below the 2 or 3 top-top clubs (they are also top in US)

Economy and tax deductible changes to dues was a huge drag on clubs, couple that with a boom in courses that are public (no taxes and subsisidized) or semi-private (often started private, due to low cost of $ – failed and now owned by 2nd or 3rd owner) – all makes private clubs an endangered institution.

I joined the Board at my club and immediately, along with several others set out to make changes to attract new members (young esp.) and run operations more in line w/ better business practices

This was meet with great angst. We forged ahead and got a lot done, added some 100+ new members are left Board / Club in very good financial shape.
Today though is different story – overloaded with debt, and fewer members , all looks good from appearance but only 1 Black Swan type event will cause some real pain to luxury purchases – the early post re dumb debt is very true.

I don’t think the golf industry in general has helped itself much – Taylormade intro’s new drivers every 9 mos., USGA worries more about anchored putting than pace of play or cost to play, Clubs still have old guard that thinks change is not necessary or worse – just raise the dues/costs, which ends up driving more out (successful golf club operations are a volume deal).

While I think that private golf clubs are worth the extra cost and am opptomistic – they must attract young members / players. Overall the cost of golf has to come down, it’s just too expensive – Private clubs need to be at price point that its more pain to have to wait and go play on slow, poor conditioned public tracks than to just stay and pay the a $$$+ more per month at private club.

Most at my club work hard to invite new members to play in events, daily swats, or stag days – if you get to play in a member-member event and you like competitive golf, its great at a private club – plus the convienence of just walking to the 1st tee and playing 5 holes late in the day in the summer with your kid or your buddy’s till it’s too dark to see. That is too much fun - My kid and I played 9 in the adult/Jr event – planned to play another 9, then had to play an emergency 9 – 27 holes and we didn’t start until after 4 pm. Great Day !

Golf is a great lifetime sport, I’m optimistic - but we have to include new / younger members and make it affordable (it’s ironic that I think it’s almost the same as poker in reverse – in poker, younger players need to be sure and make older players feel welcome and want to play recreational poker)