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Old 01-11-2010, 02:18 PM   #76
Cosines11
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Re: Becoming A Professional Golfer

wow, sick thread.

would love to hear your thoughts on fitness regimen, ship---this.
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Old 01-11-2010, 04:16 PM   #77
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Re: Becoming A Professional Golfer

Cosines and smitty…Fitness. As I stated somewhere before I worked out hard on the wrong things my first go-around at professional golf. All the exercises I did had the net result of rounding my shoulders forward which would impede my backswing. This time around I used a great trainer my instructor led me to. Our entire workout now focuses on mobility through stability. I think that is the key to flexibility. I am 36 years old now and have probably the best range of motion I have had in my life….without ever doing a static stretch like toe touches or sitting in a chair and cranking my back around like a backswing. The strengthening of the opposite muscles you are trying to create flexibility in has been the key. So rather than trying to turn my back as hard as I can to make it flexible I would strengthen the muscles that retract the shoulder blades to create a turn that way. Try sitting in a chair and turning to your right like a backswing by instigating all movement from the muscles between the right side of your spine and your shoulder blade. That is how you get behind the ball and have a loaded recoil to hammer the ball. Not by reaching back and disconnecting with your left arm. If you turn from your left arm that puts you in a very weak and injury prone position. You are then basically using your left arm as a catapult or whip and lose all of your core strength for power. If you stay connected by stabilizing and turning your core that is a much more efficient and less vulnerable way to create power…

To smitty’s question of can bulking up’s negatives out weigh the positives. The speed of the swing can’t exceed your stability so strength is a must. I would assume if you have lost muscle but not distance you have maintained the correct muscle and lost the superficial pecs etc. Not to mention that hitting the ball solid with great timing is really where the quickest gains in distance come from which you might be better at now than before.

I think good personal training is a must to compete at the highest levels. Still to this day my body won’t let me perform what I would consider to be my ideal swing. I am constantly trying to work on my lower traps so my posture will be better and on activating my glutes. My core shuts down and thus I lose the correction sequencing between my glutes to my core to upper body. The result is my left leg does not post correctly. In years before I would have sat at the range trying to get my left leg to post by simply forcing it to…that will never work because physically I can’t do it correctly. That is where great personal training comes into play. He can watch my body move and then train what needs to happen to get from here to there.

This is why I think anyone who answers a question like "what regimen should I be on" over the internet is missing the point and selling a gimmick like swing theory. I have no idea what you should work on without watching you do a basic squat to watch how your lower body moves and how your upper body breaks down during that motion. Maybe a youtube video of a few motions could be watched and a regimen put together but I really think to be done correctly would require an hour or two in the gym. I know my regimen is Monday with trainer for 1.5 hours for evaluation, therapy, and work out. Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday strength training based on the evaluation and work out Monday. Wednesday and Friday 1 hour of INTERVAL cardio. 10 minute warm up then 30 min treadmill at 10 degree incline and 7.5 mph. On for 30 second off for 1 minute. Then circuit of squat, lunge, squat jump, lunge jump, 180 jump twists each for 30 seconds 15 seconds between each movement 6 times through circuit.
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Old 01-11-2010, 04:55 PM   #78
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Re: Becoming A Professional Golfer

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Also good advice. I can tell you from my own pursuit of sports that at the highest levels the psychology is everything. For all of Tiger's amazing physical abilities, I've never seen or heard of a more sound psychological game than he has - at any sport.
Without psychology/strong mental game you can’t succeed at today’s game. If your mental game isn’t perfect you simply waste too many shots. Anyone who watched the Cardinals and Packers yesterday saw it first hand…the Cardinals kicker was 16 of 17 on the year when he missed a 34 yarder, quite badly I might add, to win the game with 14 seconds remaining. That is PSYCHOLOGY period. I would give 50k to have a recording of his thoughts from the time he got the call to kick the ball to 5 minutes after he missed it…it would be awesome to hear what was in his head. I suffer from low testosterone and was able to treat it prior to starting Q School in 2008. I had to stop taking my 2X weekly shots in July that year to get it out of my system for drug testing. As a result, my main side effects of ADD and mild depression kicked back in and the whole year playing was a constant battle between the ears. My sports psychologist gave me great advice and when I was able to put it into play I played great but the days that I didn’t quite have the focus needed on the course, due to ADD/low T, I was a train wreck…look at my results page on PGATOUR.com…holy volatility! Now if you don’t have my issues but don’t have the proper guidance to know the correct thought process you just can’t compete. Some people just “get it” but most don’t. One thing I did for the last two years was keep a 2nd scorecard. After each hole I wrote on my pin sheet if I was 100% committed to what I was doing on each shot. It is a yes or no. i.e. 3 yes and 1 no or whatever. My first tournament to try it was at the 2008 US Mid Am. The first round of stroke play qualifying I shot 29-37 tying the USGA 9 hole record. On the 29 I was 100% on the 2nd scorecard and didn’t even realize I had a putt for 29 until my playing partner told me it would be cool to shoot 29 as we were walking to the 9th green. I thought “this guy has a putt for 29?” I was proud of myself for a split second for being so into my game I didn’t realize he was talking about me...all I was thinking about was how can I be 100% committed to each shot and wow did it work. I backed off my 12 footer on that hole once because I was thinking how much I wanted to make the putt while over it. I backed off, acknowledged the thought, and went back through my routine from the start and never once from initiation of routine thought about what the putt was for. Book it. In pressure situations you must “rely on routine” to get through it. The back 9 I let my thoughts wander a bit and was, I think, 85% on the 2nd scorecard for the 9. Oh well, it was my first time to try the method. I tracked this 2nd scorecard all the way through Q School and each round got easier and easier eventually finishing with a 94.3% commitment for the 18 round Q School. 1272 shots with a bad percentage of 5.7% yields 72.504 shots I wasn’t completely committed to what I was trying to do with the shot. Think about that…I was at Final Stage of Tour School trying to get on the PGA Tour and 24 times in 6 rounds I pulled the trigger not really knowing what I was trying to do or thinking about bluebonnets, or worse…WOW. It obviously isn’t 100% correlation to shots wasted but I missed being fully exempt on the Nationwide in 2009 by a couple of shots. Sure does seem like a couple of shots seems reasonable to save from 24 non-committed swings, especially on the Stadium Course at PGA West.

Nutshell: Psychology is everything.

So what have we learned? Working out is everything, psychology is everything, short game is everything, putting REALLY is everything, hitting it far is everything, point being…if you want to compete in today’s professional game you better do EVERYTHING extremely well and 2 things perfectly…what those 2 are is up to your abilities.
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Old 01-11-2010, 08:34 PM   #79
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Re: Becoming A Professional Golfer

Quote:
Originally Posted by ship---this View Post
Without psychology/strong mental game you can’t succeed at today’s game. If your mental game isn’t perfect you simply waste too many shots. Anyone who watched the Cardinals and Packers yesterday saw it first hand…the Cardinals kicker was 16 of 17 on the year when he missed a 34 yarder, quite badly I might add, to win the game with 14 seconds remaining. That is PSYCHOLOGY period. I would give 50k to have a recording of his thoughts from the time he got the call to kick the ball to 5 minutes after he missed it…it would be awesome to hear what was in his head. I suffer from low testosterone and was able to treat it prior to starting Q School in 2008. I had to stop taking my 2X weekly shots in July that year to get it out of my system for drug testing. As a result, my main side effects of ADD and mild depression kicked back in and the whole year playing was a constant battle between the ears. My sports psychologist gave me great advice and when I was able to put it into play I played great but the days that I didn’t quite have the focus needed on the course, due to ADD/low T, I was a train wreck…look at my results page on PGATOUR.com…holy volatility! Now if you don’t have my issues but don’t have the proper guidance to know the correct thought process you just can’t compete. Some people just “get it” but most don’t. One thing I did for the last two years was keep a 2nd scorecard. After each hole I wrote on my pin sheet if I was 100% committed to what I was doing on each shot. It is a yes or no. i.e. 3 yes and 1 no or whatever. My first tournament to try it was at the 2008 US Mid Am. The first round of stroke play qualifying I shot 29-37 tying the USGA 9 hole record. On the 29 I was 100% on the 2nd scorecard and didn’t even realize I had a putt for 29 until my playing partner told me it would be cool to shoot 29 as we were walking to the 9th green. I thought “this guy has a putt for 29?” I was proud of myself for a split second for being so into my game I didn’t realize he was talking about me...all I was thinking about was how can I be 100% committed to each shot and wow did it work. I backed off my 12 footer on that hole once because I was thinking how much I wanted to make the putt while over it. I backed off, acknowledged the thought, and went back through my routine from the start and never once from initiation of routine thought about what the putt was for. Book it. In pressure situations you must “rely on routine” to get through it. The back 9 I let my thoughts wander a bit and was, I think, 85% on the 2nd scorecard for the 9. Oh well, it was my first time to try the method. I tracked this 2nd scorecard all the way through Q School and each round got easier and easier eventually finishing with a 94.3% commitment for the 18 round Q School. 1272 shots with a bad percentage of 5.7% yields 72.504 shots I wasn’t completely committed to what I was trying to do with the shot. Think about that…I was at Final Stage of Tour School trying to get on the PGA Tour and 24 times in 6 rounds I pulled the trigger not really knowing what I was trying to do or thinking about bluebonnets, or worse…WOW. It obviously isn’t 100% correlation to shots wasted but I missed being fully exempt on the Nationwide in 2009 by a couple of shots. Sure does seem like a couple of shots seems reasonable to save from 24 non-committed swings, especially on the Stadium Course at PGA West.

Nutshell: Psychology is everything.

So what have we learned? Working out is everything, psychology is everything, short game is everything, putting REALLY is everything, hitting it far is everything, point being…if you want to compete in today’s professional game you better do EVERYTHING extremely well and 2 things perfectly…what those 2 are is up to your abilities.
You certainly are a bright man. I was never into course management, psychology and working out with a gold mindset. I woke up, hit balls at the range, and just trusted myself enough to go out and play well. The problem I believe I ran into was playing a lot of the easy courses around here. I played the tips which were anywhere from 6700-7100 yards and I would go out and be -2 every round. I got cocky and took everything for granted and basically stopped practicing consistently. I then thought that Q-School was realistic. I had something in my mind that was telling me that I was the man and I was gonna breeze onto the 3rd round of q-school and get conditional or full status on the nationwide tour.
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Old 01-11-2010, 10:01 PM   #80
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Re: Becoming A Professional Golfer

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Try sitting in a chair and turning to your right like a backswing by instigating all movement from the muscles between the right side of your spine and your shoulder blade. That is how you get behind the ball and have a loaded recoil to hammer the ball. Not by reaching back and disconnecting with your left arm.
Great tip. You can really see an exagerrated version of this in matt kuchar's new swing.
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Old 01-12-2010, 07:42 PM   #81
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Re: Becoming A Professional Golfer

Best thread I've seen in the golf forum, hope we can keep it going. Anyways, I tried the 2nd scorecard for the commitment today and wasn't committed 9 times. I ended up +4 at Karsten @ ASU and fair to say had I been better on commitment my score would have been better. It's interesting how you can not commit to a shot and still get away with it, and obviously sometimes it costs you big time. I wonder what Tiger's commitment scorecard usually looks like.
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Old 01-12-2010, 07:52 PM   #82
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Re: Becoming A Professional Golfer

Tiger = 100% almost guaranteed. What I find more interesting than how you can not commit and it not cost you is the fact that anyone EVER hits a shot not committed. Seriously, how does one pull the trigger if they don't know what they are trying to do? Not pointing fingers anywhere but myself here.

@prince - the course we played for 2nd stage this year was 7450 par 71 and we played the tips everyday all the way but 2 holes...and it was wet zoysia, meaning there was 0 roll and most balls were muddy. The other thing that you can't really replicate at a normal course during casual weekend play is the pin positions. Every pin for 4 straight days is 3-5 paces from the edge of the green. This places such a premium on short game and saving shots you can't imagine. You see a ton of rookies/people who never make it with 6 birdies and 6 bogeys per round until they figure out a more conservative middle of the green 4 birdie and 1 or 2 bogey strategy.
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Old 01-12-2010, 09:12 PM   #83
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Re: Becoming A Professional Golfer

I've seen Tiger rush a lot of shots, he's human like everyone else, only difference is his tiltmode is probably a top-10 player in the world.
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Old 01-12-2010, 09:37 PM   #84
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Re: Becoming A Professional Golfer

I love the idea of keeping a second card to track your commitment level. I can almost guarantee my putting will stick out like a sore thumb. Thinking about one line while reading it and then standing over the ball and second guessing...


Thanks for sharing everything ship--this.
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Old 01-12-2010, 09:59 PM   #85
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Re: Becoming A Professional Golfer

It's not only commitment as in knowing exact target/shape etc but were there any random thoughts in your head during the swing. Examples: I wonder what my wife is doing right now, I wonder what the cut is going to be, why the hell is my car falling apart, or my favorite, some old school rap from NWA or something similar. The idea I said earlier of "acknowledge the thought and let it go" was great for me to work with. I get so many songs and crap stuck in my head and it used to drive me crazy trying to not let that happen. The last 18 months I have been of the opinion it is fine to have those thoughts in my head over a shot as long as I acknowledge them and let them float out of my mind before I pull the trigger...that and I got XM and listen to Raw Dog Comedy or ESPN instead of music on the way to the course.

As for Tiger I really do think he is virtualy perfect with regards to focus. Spenda, what have you seen that makes you think he rushes shots, I don't think I have ever seen him do anything like that.

No need to thank, I have really enjoyed it. My first 24 posts ever and it has been great. Thank you guys!
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Old 01-12-2010, 10:14 PM   #86
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Re: Becoming A Professional Golfer

Quote:
Originally Posted by ship---this View Post
It's not only commitment as in knowing exact target/shape etc but were there any random thoughts in your head during the swing. Examples: I wonder what my wife is doing right now, I wonder what the cut is going to be, why the hell is my car falling apart, or my favorite, some old school rap from NWA or something similar. The idea I said earlier of "acknowledge the thought and let it go" was great for me to work with. I get so many songs and crap stuck in my head and it used to drive me crazy trying to not let that happen. The last 18 months I have been of the opinion it is fine to have those thoughts in my head over a shot as long as I acknowledge them and let them float out of my mind before I pull the trigger...that and I got XM and listen to Raw Dog Comedy or ESPN instead of music on the way to the course.

As for Tiger I really do think he is virtualy perfect with regards to focus. Spenda, what have you seen that makes you think he rushes shots, I don't think I have ever seen him do anything like that.

No need to thank, I have really enjoyed it. My first 24 posts ever and it has been great. Thank you guys!
ship this, did you ever want to work anywhere else in the golf business? I am a solid player I think but nowhere near a great player. I took my shot because I had a decent college and amateur career and I had dreams in my mind. After I knew I couldn't make it playing competitively I figured I would atleast work in the golf business. I I think I have enough talent to play full time on a mini tour but I don't think I could go through the grind of trying to play for profit after my entry fees. Also Ship, have you ever teed it up in a PGA tour event, if so, how was your experience?
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Old 01-12-2010, 11:40 PM   #87
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Re: Becoming A Professional Golfer

Tiger rushes a lot of greenside shots when he's steaming, not like its more than the avg. player, but it seems like it b/c TV coverage never misses one of his swings.
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Old 01-12-2010, 11:46 PM   #88
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Re: Becoming A Professional Golfer

@prince – I am considering getting into teaching as we speak. My story from quitting the first time I played golf in 2001 has led me to an interesting crossroad in life right now. In 2001 I was very fortunate in that Texas was in the process of deregulating its electricity market. I started a company and within a few years I was managing about $100 million in contracts. I worked 100 hour weeks from 2002 until the hurricanes in late 2005 impacted natural gas pricing forcing me to take a few months to let everything shake out. This is when I first got into poker and found 2+2. I played quite a bit in Dallas in 2006 and then played the $2500 WSOP event and the Main Event that year (knocked out with 15 min left in day 1). I basically spent the last half of 2006 and 2007 in a depressed fog. My residual from electricity was more than I could spend so I didn’t work at all and this is when I realized I had low testosterone as mentioned earlier. I was actually reading a Men’s Health one day when I came across an article on low T and Shaun Micheel. I played with Shaun in the 1999 US Open at Pinehurst (there is your answer to your other question) so I thought I would read the article. It described me to a tee. Depression, no energy, no mental acuity, ADD, belly fat, and on and on. So I went and got my T level checked and my number came up at 312. Normal for a 35 year old man should be about 800. I started supplementing with 2 shots a week and my number rose to 900. I felt awesome and rejuvenated. That is why I took 2008 and really dedicated myself to golf and the US Am and US Mid-Am. Only after playing tourneys that summer did I think of Q School. I contacted the Tour and filed for a therapeutic use exemption which was denied largely because they are still completely clueless that some people need to supplement just to live a normal life. Separate rant could go on for days on this subject. Anywho, I digress…so yes I have considered getting into the business as I have nothing to do right now. I started testosterone treatment the day after I missed at 2nd stage this year. So now I feel great again but have nothing to do. That is probably one of the reasons I have been posting here so much to try and get a feel of if I like the idea of teaching and whether or not I would be good at it.

As to playing in a PGA Tour event; it is/was awesome. I was about 5 groups ahead of Tiger in the first round and the crowd was swelling as I was playing. Holy shi& was that fun! Walking out on the practice range and hitting balls between Phil and Fred Couples was easily the most surreal moment I have had…at least until the birth of my daughter 4 months ago. The 6 Nationwide starts I got this year were great too though. The small towns really go all out for the tourneys. Corporate tents, cool contests, and the people really root for you since they understand you probably aren’t an arrogant ass (yet). Coolest thing I did this year was in Knoxville. I did the broadcast from the booth because the tournament director saw my bio of being only the 2nd amateur to make it to Final stage and he wanted me to come on air and tell my story. That was fun.
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Old 01-12-2010, 11:47 PM   #89
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Re: Becoming A Professional Golfer

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Tiger rushes a lot of greenside shots when he's steaming, not like its more than the avg. player, but it seems like it b/c TV coverage never misses one of his swings.
I guess you can rush those when its 50-50 you're gonna hole it!
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Old 01-13-2010, 11:30 AM   #90
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Re: Becoming A Professional Golfer

sad but true

his tiltmode is probably a top-5 player in the world
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Old 01-15-2010, 01:22 AM   #91
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Re: Becoming A Professional Golfer

Great thread! Fawcett, what are your thoughts on the Platinum Room's blind structutre?
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Old 01-15-2010, 11:18 AM   #92
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15 min levels in live poker seem more than ample....
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Old 01-15-2010, 09:54 PM   #93
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Re: Becoming A Professional Golfer

Has anyone read the book 'Outliers'? I think it is an OK book, but one recurring theme in the book is how the author feels that 10,000 hours is sort of a magical number for the number of hours of practice required to reach an elite level.. So basically, if OP practices as if it were a full time job for 5 years, he gets his 10k hours.. Where does that put him? Is it possible to practice 40 hours a week? I think I could do it, lol!.. (If that includes playing..)

@ ship--this.. I really understand what you're saying about wanting to play lefty.. With golf, it's the learning process that is what is enjoyable for me. It's like learning a language. It's harder when you're an adult then when you're a kid, but it's more rewarding when you're an adult. I'm studying thai and french right now, and I'm not really studying for french for any practical reason other than I like the challenge and discipline that is required.
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Old 01-16-2010, 08:06 PM   #94
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Re: Becoming A Professional Golfer

Such a great thread...got me to register after lurking forever. Thanks Scott.

As a former golf professional as some others here, it always struck me as funny how close the average public and sometimes even good players think a scratch to maybe a +2 or handicap is to the tour guys. It's so far and away its kind of silly.

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An instructor with a “theory” doesn’t usually even look at a players physical capabilities. etc....
Couldn't agree more. The average PGA instructor is so poor at communicating, not only in general, but golf concepts as well that its embarrassing. Not that I think instruction is a waste of time, but I think finding a good/excellent one is like finding a diamond in the rough.
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Old 01-17-2010, 12:16 AM   #95
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Re: Becoming A Professional Golfer

What you need to understand about people who like to use a blanket approach a la Haney swing plane manipulation, is that it's a great way to teach clinics, schools, and weekend warriors, especially those on vacation. Am I guilty of this, absolutely. Am I guilty of this when there was a better alternative, negative.

You have to suit your instruction to your student, if that means you're never going to see this person again, then trying to resurrect some swing from scratch is just the worst possible way to go about it. I've seen professionals I considered good instructors beat their head against the wall in this very situation time and time again. While you can justify it by telling the student what needs to be fixed in order you really aren't providing the service your clientele is paying for. Now, if you're a professional at a home club or academy and will be seeing said student numerous times in short order then sure, let's go ahead and and work on things in sequence piece by piece. The problem is that isn't the way the world works, and too many people end up paying for a worse golf swing b/c golf instructors are too stubborn.

I see a lot of hate going on against the quick-fix crowd, but I've seen a lot of people walk away more than pleased from a 2-day clinic/retreat as a product of these "theory" instructors.
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Old 01-17-2010, 06:38 PM   #96
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Re: Becoming A Professional Golfer

Getting back to the commitment level topic. How much does/will a good caddie make a difference in this. For instance, how many times will he/she take you from 85% committed in a shot to the 100% level. Long time ago, there was a thead on how many shots a great caddie is worth a round. I couldn't help but think of this while reading your comments about commiting to a shot
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Old 01-17-2010, 07:26 PM   #97
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Re: Becoming A Professional Golfer

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Getting back to the commitment level topic. How much does/will a good caddie make a difference in this. For instance, how many times will he/she take you from 85% committed in a shot to the 100% level. Long time ago, there was a thead on how many shots a great caddie is worth a round. I couldn't help but think of this while reading your comments about commiting to a shot
Depends on the individual, and the relationship of the player/caddie.
If the player has a lot of room for improvement in this area, and he trusts his caddie, it can make a big difference.
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Old 01-17-2010, 07:28 PM   #98
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Re: Becoming A Professional Golfer

ship...you have really opened my eyes to a lot of things. i am a college golfer myself, and am trying to get my game a bit better, and with some of the things you talked about i am going to work on improvement (drinking, diet, fitness, and short game). i was just wondering if you knew anything about the "TPI" workouts?
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Old 01-17-2010, 09:47 PM   #99
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A good caddy can be huge. Most of the caddy's that travel the Nationwide are basically ass-whips. The PGA caddies are typically very good. I have a friend who caddies for me at Tour school each year...he is extremely intelligent and owns a mortgage company that makes him millions per year. Obviously he can't leave his gig and caddy for me all year but I can tell you that talking out each shot with someone whose opinion I respect who can play the game is a huge benefit. For me in 2009 since I never knew if I was going to be in the tourney until last minute I always just picked up a local and would hope they would just be quiet the whole time.

As to TPI work outs I think they are pretty good. Again though you have to be using the right components of the work out specific to your body. The only way that can be diagnosed is via a trainer who knows what to look for. Most working adults have different problems from being at a desk all day and typing or whatever. You as college player probably wouldn't have the same issues. I would say to find a good TPI level 3 (I think) trainer and plan on spendind a few hundred bucks to get initial consultation and then go back for monthly or whatever you can afford check ups. The body really does get out of balance when playing and praciticing a ton.
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Old 01-18-2010, 12:43 AM   #100
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Re: Becoming A Professional Golfer

The number of golfers that make a career from prize money is so incredibly small. What is always amazing is looking at the Q School roster and recognizing so many people - major winners, multiple tour winners, Ryder Cuppers, etc. They are back to just fighting for an opportunity to play against the best in the world.

Close to a true meritocracy (outside of sponsor exemptions). Doesn't matter how good you used to be, if you don't perform, that is it.
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